Things to consider when building backgrounds.

[Theomore Tullison]

1. The big thing that I believe needs mention, are the concepts of page, squire and lady in waiting.

In the Andal tradition, noble boys goes to some other house to be pages and then squires. And the girls to be ladies in waiting. Here they learn courtly traditions, and are thought such skills as are expected of them. Needlework, fighting etc. Jaime was page and squire at Crakehall. Lord Redwyne refused to take Samwell Tarly. Much to the shame of his father. Why? Because Lord Redwyne flat out said that he wasn't going to bear the burden of failing to make Sam into a proper knight. Exceptions do exist, but the norm is that noble houses sends their sons and daughters to each other to strengthen relationships, a lord's sister may well be accompanied by a nephew to serve as page and later squire to her new husband. A liege lord will often want his bannermen's children to foster at his court so that he has potential hostages.

Why am I saying this?
- It's a detail overlooked by a great many people, sometimes including GR.
- What better way to have a prior relationship to other characters and houses by having been pages, squires or lady in waiting for or with them?
- It's something to put under "
I did this in my childhood"
.

If you're the son of a sworn sword or something, then this doesn't apply to you.

2. Your status ranks does not need to equal your position in society.

Simply put, you have status rank, and you have maximum status rank. The King has maximum status 10. But unlike the dolts that wrote the campaign guide that gave King Bob Status 10, we ought to remember that chapter 6 says maximum status rank. Status is the ability to wield your position, your maximum status is how much position there is to wield. So where Tywin undoubtedly worked his way up to maximum 9 for being hand of the king, Ned never got past the 8 for being warden of north, and possibly not even the 7 for being the head of a great house. Greater scrutiny, such as the fact that Ned was bred to follow his brother Bran might suggest a 5 or 6. An infant lord doesn't get born with his maximum status all filled up.'

Food for thought, this means that the Dunstans and Corinne's need not be crippled by their positions as head of house by having a large chunk of XP invested in status. So you could be heir, lord, even. And be able to participate with the same sort of stats as the rest of us.

3. Since I believe this still holds weight, I'll just repost it from last time:

So since I like my authenticity, and others may not have quite so extensively researched all the minutiae of the setting as I have (I'm a bit extreme in that regard to be perfectly honest), I thought I might slap together a little guide that I believe some would find useful:

Lords:

Technically, in order to be a lord, you must have the right to pit and gallows in your domain granted by the king. This is the only real difference between lord and landed knight, there are examples of the latter type that are considerably more powerful and influential than quite a few lords. And lords should always be addressed as lord when spoken to. However, any noble can be addressed as lord as an honorific, and smallfolk will typically do that. Non-lord members of the small council typically will be given this honorific, as would heirs to lords and sons too young yet to be knighted. Though it is probably more common to use the ser prefix for sons of lords that qualify for it.

Of special note is how you use the prefix. "
Lord Bartheld"
is reserved for Brom alone, because that denotes the lord of house bartheld. While his grandson (who is effectively the acting lord) would be addressed as "
Lord Davain"
, at least by those wanting to be respectful (or give that impression), not giving that honorific would be a sign of ill-will, but not quite an insult, not addressing Brom as lord would definitely be an insult. Note that "
Lord Brom"
is equally accepted as form of address as "
Lord Bartheld"
, the latter is a bit more stiff and formal.

A lord can typically be recognized by wearing a signet ring, and often the sigil of his house visible.

Knights

All it takes to be a knight is to be knighted, and any knight can make a knight. The form of address is always Ser <
first name>
or Ser <
full name>
, Ser Corbin is usually how you address the man, while Ser Corbin Celtigar would be what you'd say to others to let them know that he's a celtigar. You would never use Ser Celtigar. It is also an insult not to address a knight as ser (unless you address him as lord instead).

The importance of knighthood is that you enter the noble class, maybe on the very low end, and hedge knights tends to not be included even so. It gives you the right to present your case and call witnesses in front of the lord that sits in judgement if you are accused of wrongdoing, as well as the right to trial by combat. Further, your trueborn children will also have that right, just like other nobles, however, it is not always easy to get that right recognized. Additionally, it is expected that the one arranging the knighting supplies warhorse, arms and armor, and a position in his household (so one would not knight someone one wouldn't want to "
pay"
with equipment, food and lodging, this part is less relevant for nobles squiring for other lords, then returning to his own lands.)

Of additional note is that Westeros is a class-based society. If a man is not knighted, then the rest of the knightly class will look down upon him (and almost all nobles are knighted), something is obviously wrong if no knight can vouch for his martial prowess and courtly manners. Being anointed with the seven oils and dubbed on the shoulder seven times with the sword is the coming-of-age rite for highborn boys. In some tourneys (especially in the Reach), any non-knight can forget about being allowed to take part (the joust in particular).

Knights usually wear the arms of their house to show that they are knights (house by birth, so Ser Rowan Clay would bear the arms of House Clay, or if he's the founder by being knighted, then he chooses his personal arms that then becomes those of his sons etc..he would not use Bartheld's arms, but he might decide to play on the Bartheld theme as a show of loyalty).

Ladies

Any woman, maid (or even girl) being the daughter or wife of a noble ought to be addressed as lady. There isn't much differentiating them from each other, or even non-nobles (apart from clothing and such). Now, it could be that "
Lady Bartheld"
specifically denotes the lady of the house, it makes sense to me, but I cannot say how much support there is for that in the setting material, and it may well be that there are contradictions in the books. Could be that it's simply a honorific sometimes used without any universally accepted norm.

Bastards

A bastard is someone born out of wedlock. If both parents are smallfolk, nobody gives a shit. If the father is noble and the mother isn't, then he may decide to acknowledge the child, which grants the bastard surname and the rights afforded to nobility (trial and such), and it is expected that the father provides for the child (knighthood for boys, decent marriage for girls). If the mother is a noble then the child automatically gain the bastard surename and the rights afforded a noble. It is, however, the father's duty to provide for the child, and it is considered extremely rude for a nobleman not to acknowledge the child and take responsibility for it.

But there's of course the stigma. Bastards are born out of lust, and yadda yadda yadda. It is considered an insult to his wife for a nobleman to raise a bastard within his own household, read more on the wiki. Bastards are not truly members of the house of their parents, they may still inherit if there are no other trueborn claimant, but inheritance in westeros is often more about who has the power to ascend to lordship than who has the right of it (most times, the designated heir are both those things). Bastard knights may not use their father's sigil, though they often invert the colors.

Further, bastards are usually not given any prefix when addressed, with the exception of knights (because knights are made, not born).

The meaning of all this?

I'm a puritan when it comes to playing in the setting, at least as far as the things that requires no big change in playstyle, such as form of address, I've seen at least one example here of people that probably did not know. Also, I should like that everyone adds a little line in their signature denoting one's title. Maesters, septons and septas are obviously addressed as such. A knight, lord or lady will likely dress such that others recognize them as such so that social blunders may be avoided. A non-knighted nobleman might be addressed as "
master"
for example, should one wish to be polite.

And everyone should pick on the bastards :p

[Baelon Drakeson]

I wholeheartedly applaud your post. Very important info.

I do want to put one huge caveat out there.

These are largely Andal customs. They will apply to most characters, but not all.

Notably, if you are from a different culture - those who keep the old faith, Dornishmen, Iron Islanders, and families with cultural ties to old Valyria (i.e. Targaryans and to a lesser extent Velaryans) are apt to act a bit different. For instance, Knighthood is much less common in the north, and so it is quite feasible to have a non-knight warrior from the north (likely a Coldbrook) be included in a tourney - it is recognized that they are not knights because of cultural/religious differences, not lack of ability or station. Further, denying such participants could be viewed as an insult to the warrior's lord - assuming the warrior is being vouched for by a lord. As another example, the Dornish are not as anti-bastard. Targaryans are inconsistent in their treatment of bastards, and their (less common now) polygamy and still common incestuous relations make everything a bit more complicated. When in doubt, look it up! A Wiki of Ice and Fire is your friend, and there are lots of other good resources too. If that's not enough, ask. I'm sure there are several opinionated people (yes, I'm including myself) that would be more than happy to help.

Side note - if you want to play a Dornish person, keep in mind that you are a foreigner. Dorne is still it's own kingdom at this point.

Of course, your character may, for personal reasons, deviate from these beliefs. If so, have a reason. Jamie and Cersei, by culture, should have been as anti-incest as Ned Stark, but clearly that wasn't the case. Specific trumps general - but have a reason.

And everyone should pick on the bastards :p

Generally true, though a knighted bastard is still a knight, and can go quite far even if never legitimized.
Also, be sure that the bastard won't pick back - with a blade.

[Jon Cobb]

Of course, your character may, for personal reasons, deviate from these beliefs. If so, have a reason. Jamie and Cersei, by culture, should have been as anti-incest as Ned Stark, but clearly that wasn't the case. Specific trumps general - but have a reason.

A fair enough point, to which I'd like to add a caveat of my own. If you've come up with a really cool reason why your character deviates from expected social norms, then please don't make it a secret reason no one can ever know about. Or even worse - a reason no one would really care enough to find out about.

If it's not a game-breaking secret, then write it up in your public character bio so that the rest of us can be aware of the reasons for your character's odd behavior. Otherwise the reason may as well never have existed. If it is a secret, but not one you expect others to spend their time finding out about, I would still put it in the public bio, but also note that "
this is not public knowledge"
, or something similar. At least that way, we have OOC knowledge about what's going on with your character, and can judge your IC actions appropriately.

Why am I saying this? Because I've played with far too many players where everything about their character was deliberately mysterious, and attempts to find out more about them were constantly rebuffed. The net result was that everyone else quickly stopped caring and wrote the character off as an annoying git.

And just to be clear - I am talking about the reasons for odd behavior here, not secrets as such. The Jaime/Cersei relationship is actually a good illustration of my point. Their relationship is naturally something that one would keep secret in the game as well. Their reasons for indulging in such a relationship are comparatively uninteresting however, and seem mostly to amount to "
because we could and we think we're special"
. The result? No one cares why they're having an affair - the crime of engaging in the relationship is so huge that it completely overshadows any possible explanation.

[Theomore Tullison]

Such things could also be revealed through play. Internal thoughts helps exposition. I can't really remember me having a character with such weird mysterious motivations or big secrets. But I like to talk so much about my characters that motivations and behavior explanation isn't something I think I need to provide (more of)....

[Baelon Drakeson]

Such things could also be revealed through play. Internal thoughts helps exposition.

Yes! Internal monologue is great! So much of the story in the books is to be found in the discrepancies between what is thought and said. Further, we all give away information with body language, facial expressions, tone of voice... include those things if you can too. There is no such thing as a perfect liar - just ask pro poker players.

Of course, your character may, for personal reasons, deviate from these beliefs. If so, have a reason. Jamie and Cersei, by culture, should have been as anti-incest as Ned Stark, but clearly that wasn't the case. Specific trumps general - but have a reason.

A fair enough point, to which I'd like to add a caveat of my own. If you've come up with a really cool reason why your character deviates from expected social norms, then please don't make it a secret reason no one can ever know about. Or even worse - a reason no one would really care enough to find out about.

If it's not a game-breaking secret, then write it up in your public character bio so that the rest of us can be aware of the reasons for your character's odd behavior. Otherwise the reason may as well never have existed. If it is a secret, but not one you expect others to spend their time finding out about, I would still put it in the public bio, but also note that "
this is not public knowledge"
, or something similar. At least that way, we have OOC knowledge about what's going on with your character, and can judge your IC actions appropriately.

Why am I saying this? Because I've played with far too many players where everything about their character was deliberately mysterious, and attempts to find out more about them were constantly rebuffed. The net result was that everyone else quickly stopped caring and wrote the character off as an annoying git.

For that matter, there is no drama in secrets that never get exposed. If you don't want your character's secrets to be exposed, don't have secrets.

And just to be clear - I am talking about the reasons for odd behavior here, not secrets as such. The Jaime/Cersei relationship is actually a good illustration of my point. Their relationship is naturally something that one would keep secret in the game as well. Their reasons for indulging in such a relationship are comparatively uninteresting however, and seem mostly to amount to "
because we could and we think we're special"
. The result? No one cares why they're having an affair - the crime of engaging in the relationship is so huge that it completely overshadows any possible explanation.

Well, I think it says a lot about their personalities, and it says a lot about the Lannister family: Tywin, Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion all act as if the rules of society do not apply to them. They all break societal norms and think they can get away with it. They do so in secret ways and they do in open ways.

The motivation for a secret should be grounded in personality traits, and those personality traits should be evident in other ways as well. That way even if the secrets don't come to light for a while, they aren't just words on a character sheet.

[Jon Cobb]

Such things could also be revealed through play. Internal thoughts helps exposition.

Yes, such things can be revealed through play, but only reliably so if you take the initiative in letting your "
secret"
reason out. If no one else is supposed to know, then they're not very likely to find a reason to probe your PC for information.

[Theomore Tullison]

Well, a good mystery secret where the PC's internal thoughts are of the fearful variety of such and such becoming known could work too...

[Jon Cobb]

And just to be clear - I am talking about the reasons for odd behavior here, not secrets as such. The Jaime/Cersei relationship is actually a good illustration of my point. Their relationship is naturally something that one would keep secret in the game as well. Their reasons for indulging in such a relationship are comparatively uninteresting however, and seem mostly to amount to "
because we could and we think we're special"
. The result? No one cares why they're having an affair - the crime of engaging in the relationship is so huge that it completely overshadows any possible explanation.

Well, I think it says a lot about their personalities, and it says a lot about the Lannister family: Tywin, Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion all act as if the rules of society do not apply to them. They all break societal norms and think they can get away with it. They do so in secret ways and they do in open ways.

The motivation for a secret should be grounded in personality traits, and those personality traits should be evident in other ways as well. That way even if the secrets don't come to light for a while, they aren't just words on a character sheet.

Agreed on the motivation for a secret part. As for the Lannisters, that is an apt description of why they act like they do, but it says little about where they got the idea that they're above society's rules in the first place. As such, they always struck me as a fairly shallow bunch.

[Theomore Tullison]

Also Corrrolary to #1:

If you want to play a squire. How about making a squire from one home house serving a knight from another home house?

[Ser Jorah Holt]

especially if you have to discipline your squire at all. Certainly makes it more interesting if he happens to be the second son of House Dulver or somebody like that.

[Colin Corbray]

And just to be clear - I am talking about the reasons for odd behavior here, not secrets as such. The Jaime/Cersei relationship is actually a good illustration of my point. Their relationship is naturally something that one would keep secret in the game as well. Their reasons for indulging in such a relationship are comparatively uninteresting however, and seem mostly to amount to "
because we could and we think we're special"
. The result? No one cares why they're having an affair - the crime of engaging in the relationship is so huge that it completely overshadows any possible explanation.

Well, I think it says a lot about their personalities, and it says a lot about the Lannister family: Tywin, Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion all act as if the rules of society do not apply to them. They all break societal norms and think they can get away with it. They do so in secret ways and they do in open ways.

The motivation for a secret should be grounded in personality traits, and those personality traits should be evident in other ways as well. That way even if the secrets don't come to light for a while, they aren't just words on a character sheet.

Agreed on the motivation for a secret part. As for the Lannisters, that is an apt description of why they act like they do, but it says little about where they got the idea that they're above society's rules in the first place. As such, they always struck me as a fairly shallow bunch.

I'd say that basically comes down to Tywin. Tywin ruled the realm for over twenty years and power corrupts. When you are used to always have what you wanted you kind of take it for granted. So Tywin's used to this position and given that he raised Cersei and Tyrion I think they have pretty much taken after him. In regards to Jaime I think its pretty much a combination of a defensive mental measure of answering society's contempt for him with his own contempt for society, as well as knowing that he's got a Great House behind him if things would get tough.

The Lannisters are, almost, anything but shallow.

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