D1Washing off the traveling dust (Early morning) open to men

[Yoren longshore]

"
Having traveled for extensive periods really makes one appreciate the luxuries in life."
Yoren reflected as he got into the water. "
How do they keep all this water heated, once i'm done i will have to ask one of the servants."
That however is for later, now cleanliness is the main issue in Yorens mind. "
Could we not put humans in barrels of stone, like they do armour and then just wash the sand off?"
He ponders for himself.

He sits like that for quite some time just pondering, almost falling asleep. "
Sleep is for the night"
, he reminds himself. "
If man sleeps during the day he is awake during the night, and he will struggle to tell what is real, he might be convinced that night is the better time to be awake, and this path surely leads to wrongdoings. Day was given to apreciate the light, while sleep was given to avoid the darkness of the night"


Still tired he starts to examine the bath to keep himself occupied, wondering if anyone else is about.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC: Might want to add '(OPEN TO MEN)' to the title to make explicit that others aren't locked out of this thread at a glance. And the baths are 'one gender at a time', hence the 'to men')

A voice enters, followed by its owner. "
Ah, but it is at night that people huddle together around fires;
drinking, singing, telling tales and forming bonds that couldn't happen any other way. Rather, is it not the sun that provides the light to toil by, and the night that gives the excuse to be more than a mere worker? And is it not both in combination that forms a well-balanced individual?"


A rather slim youth steps into clear view, hand extended to shake. "
Apologies for interrupting your musing, I just love a good debate. Master Daveth Coldbrook. May I join you?"

[Yoren longshore]

Yoren flashes a smile to the newcomer. "
A good point you make there master Daveth my name is Yoren Longshore. No titles for me."
He flashes another quick smile shaking the masters hand. "
You spoke about men huddling around the fires, but what is the sun, if not a fire for all men to enjoy."


He gestures to a torch. "
This torch is always flickering upwards, trying to join the sun in shining upon men, but is forever confined to its mortal coil, in this case the wood the fire is consuming."

Yoren frowns for a second "
I will have to admit fault in my argument, you are right, night is not the dangerous part, the dangerous is the darkness, for alone in the darkness thoughts develop, Dangerous thoughts. Fear spreads in darkness, and men need someone to consult with. Then it is a luck that you came, aiding me in my reasoning, maybe being in darkness is not so bad, if you can have a mans fire to share it with? Surely men can warm just as well as fires?"


he smiles at his companion "
I am honored that you will discuss these issues with me master Daveth, but tell me: what brings you to this tourney? Fame glory, or curiosity what flames your imagination?"

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Longshore. Ironborn. Well, fuck.

Though I have to say, so far, this man is *not* what I expected.

"
Very poetic, Yoren Longshore,"
Daveth replies, entering the bath. I'm probably going to regret this. "
but if the torch were trying to join the sun, would the direction the flame points not move throughout the day? Or am I being too literal in your meaning?

"
And I find I disagree with you again about the darkness, though I admit with less logic behind it. I find people see in the darkness merely what they take with them. Have you ever dropped a portion of wine into water? The water starts clear, then the wine enters, and at that moment, is all in one place, like a man entering the darkness. But like said man, in the absence of colour around it, the wine spreads, filling the water, until all you can see is diluted wine. But all the wine can see is everything it brought with him. That in itself can be terrifying - it takes a brave man to face himself with illusions stripped bare, but it is still not the darkness that is scary. It is always just men. Though I agree with you about the comfort of others, we are a social people - two people acting together can often accomplish more than the same two could alone.

"
And as for my presence? Love and duty, in that order. Some members of my family will likely be competing. I intend to make sure that they can focus their efforts there by smoothing away any other matter. Like I said earlier"
with a half grin. "
Two people acting together, and all that."

[Yoren longshore]

Joren laughs;
"
yes, that would be to take my poor attempts at poetry too far, although for arguments sake would this torch know where the sun is? You seem to be educated, do you know why the flames are going upwards? Is there something up there they long to join?"


When hearing the wine analogy he smiles: "
I have never considered that, although at fear of coming under assault from your sharp tongue, I will have to disagree. Have you never notice that the darkness drains something from you? If we look at your wine analogy we may see that the wine does become diluted, unpure, worse to drink, from its interactiom with the water. The water seeps into the wine, making it weaker, just like the darkness may weaken your human side and fill it with blandness. The wine is a good symbol for the soul, would you mind if I use it when I teach next? You have proved us to be social, you have aided me in understanding matter far above my abilities, simply by showing it from your viewpoint."


Nodding his head Yoren says: "
asisting your family? You are a better man than I was at your age, I was egocentric at your age, thinking of little other than myself, if you keep your priorities on love and family, i see little that may go wrong."

[Daveth Coldbrook]

"
Sadly I have no idea why the flames behave as they do. While those kinds of questions do often plague me, I'm forced by circumstance to focus my training on more practical matters."
he shrugs, apologetically.

"
I have not personally felt diminished by darkness, but I will also admit that my feelings are no more valid than anyone else's. Perception is how we interpret truth. If you feel diminished, then I am certainly at fault to claim that it is not true. And as for using my analogy, I'd be flattered. I know what I do today at least in part through the bothering of many maesters. That I could help others be taught would simply be me starting to pay off a debt accrued over many years."


Daveth looks over at his bathing companion. "
I hope you take no insult from this, but I haven't really conversed with any Ironborn before. You are *not* what I was expecting, Yoren Longshore. What *do* you teach?"

[Yoren longshore]

"
Well, we all have to focus on the practical, but I find that something these useless questions clears the mind, exercises the mind if you will."
Yoren himself shrugs: "
Some call it impractical, but I think the truth is worth the time to examine it, even if it is just the truth of a flame."


"
The fact that the darkness does not bother you is interesting."
Yoren offers: "
maybe some are more resilient than others, I myself always feel burdened by lonely nights, they bring about thoughts I'd rather be without."


He laughs at the part of the ironborn. "
Ironborn are just like normal people, although we are generally more pro violence and does not pay as much heed to merits or knowledge, there are exeptions. Just like you find un-knightly knights, just as you find Non-violent warriors, there are also ironborn who would not put an axe between your eyes for asking therotical questions."
"
As to what I teach, I teach my perception of the truth. I have travelled through Essos for some time, and there I learnt of R'hollor, which is their religion, just as the Arryns have the seven, the starks the old gods, and us iron islanders have the drowned god, I teach why I believe that R'hollor has more truth in him than the sevens do."
Yorem shrugs before he continues "
I am here to spread the news of R'hollor to Westeros. I find that all the old religions have adpects of R'hollor in them, just that they cannot explain it in any coherent fashion, which is what R'hollor grants us, a better explanation to life."

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Daveth shrugs. "
Well, I am perhaps strange. I've spent many hours in the company of none save books. Perhaps that is the cause.

"
Still, you plan to teach a foreign god to Westeros?"
he chuckles. "
Speaking of things that will get an axe put between your eyes."

Out of curiosity, what *is* your god's position on raiding, raping, pillaging, slaughter, and slave-taking? No, Daveth! Bad! Diplomacy!
"
Out of curiosity, how different *is* your new god's belief system from that of the drowned god? I suspect if it is not that similar, you may have something of an uphill battle among your kin."

[Yoren longshore]

"
What is strange anyway? You are Daveth, who am I to say that you are wrong and I am right, this is fitting my musings with reality, you did not prove yourself strange, if anything you proved me narrowminded for not considering that some might enjoy what I abhor. "
yoren takes daveth by the shoulder, "
You should relax more, nothing you say is unapropriate, the recievers of the message you deliver nay just not be mature enough to understand your message."


Yoren grows more sober at the talk of his uphill battle. "
I will tell what is philosophically wrong with the lifestyle of one of the most martial cultures in Westeros. It is an uphill battle for sure, although if I focus on the similarities instead of the differences, I predict that I may make some meet me in curiosity, instead of animosity. Did not Tristifer the Hammer fight a hundred battles uphill before having to concede defeat, I still have a good 90 upphill battles before I'll veat his record, and these battles will grant me wisdom. In the famous words of said Tristifer: "
suffering is what makes us strong my boy, just as the iron most hammered turns out the hardest."
We could learn something from him in our society."
Yoren smiles "
give the world truth, don't be afraid of death, for life is merely delayed death."
Yoren shrugs
"
As you say, these matters are not practical, truth never is practical, but I feel that we should discuss it nonetheless, and I enjoy discussing these matters with you."

[Daveth Coldbrook]

"
Again, I disagree. You claim that nothing I say is inappropriate, but one should always be wary of one's audience. If you are a chef, it may be true that the turnip soup you put in front of your lord is the best turnip soup he'll ever have, but if his beloved wife choked to death on a turnip not two months prior, you'll be lucky to keep your head. Whereas, if you instead mix the turnips in with potatoes, and cover them in pastry, you can likely get the lord to swallow them without censure."


Daveth looks puzzled for a moment. "
I'm not quite sure where I was going with that, beyond possibly the realisation that I should perhaps have had breakfast before coming here.

"
Still, I agree with you that this is a pleasant way to pass time. I suspect that perhaps our circumstances are not so different. My family, while Northmen, and thus having a rather different mentality to such, are also very martial, and I am the exception in that regard, as you are rather different in your beliefs to your kin."


(OOC: So. I'm not sure if I even want to, given how well they're going for me, but I think I'll start an intrigue now. Never falter!

Intrigue
Goal: Convince to spend time in Godswood
Initiative: Eloquent
Disposition: Indifferent (+0 Per, +0 Dec, 4 DR)
Intrigue Defense: 10
Composure: 9
(The difference in defence from when I faced Baelon is because I have a constant -1D penalty to Status, and thought that gave a -1 penalty. Having checked, it doesn't. Wouldn't have helped then, anyway. ))

Edit: Goal changed from friendship due to later discussion.

[Yoren longshore]

Goal: Convince
Initiative: (Lower than yours:))
Disposition: Indifferent (+0 Per, +0 Dec, 4 DR)
Intrigue Defense: 9
Composure: 15

Yoren laughs. "
Good point, but you feed them the truth, or the turnip, even though it may loose you your head. Truth is the same, I believe that R'hollor baked a little of his truth in all the westerosi religions, you just have to look to find it, just like with the turnip."


(Ooc don't worry, you'll probably mince me:) I wanted to use goal friendship too, but as that would be silly I'll try to convince you to read up on R'hollor. But if you are not keen on an intrigue, just tell me and we might just yield of friendly terms:)
I'll be friendly and you'll be friendly.
)

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC, as I don't have time for a full message right now.
That's actually an interesting idea. If you haven't spent much time in a godswood, which I imagine is the case, I change my goal to try and convince you to spend some time in the godswood, even if you're only doing your 'intellectual exercises', it's a fantastic place to relax and calm your head and focus, and we agree to both raise dispositions to 'amiable' on parting (friendly is probably a bit much for a first encounter). That way, we're both aiming to expose the other to their religion, and, win or lose, we part on good terms. Seem fair?

Oh, and I think not on me winning - you appear to have Will 5, unless your high composure's from a benefit. If I remember the rules correctly, which is admittedly a big 'if', if you Withdraw every 2nd round, you'll probably be untouchable (I think it would raise your defence to an average of 17.5), and you'll be able to whittle me down.

Edit: Now having the rules in front of me, no. That would work fantastically if you had initiative. Fortunately, you don't. I'm still in this!)

[Yoren longshore]

ooc
(Agreed, you start the intrigue, as you are the guy with eloquent;
) )

[Daveth Coldbrook]

"
Speaking of religion, have you ever spent any time in a Godswood? They're rare south of the neck, and I'd imagine rarer in Essos, but you seem a well-travelled individual, so it's possible."


Daveth watches Yoren's response carefully, looking for signs of if he's a true zealot.

[url=Read Target][/url]: 3d6 - 11
Man, I hope I was right that you're as honest as you seem. That's against your passive Deception, btw (so, 4* rank).

[Yoren longshore]

Yoren makes a grand gesture
"
I've been to a few, although never to the big ones, like the one in winterfell, In Essos i have not come across any, although that may just be my lack of perception, but i don't think so, as the old gods barely got a mention in the great temple in Bravoos, as far as i remember."
Yoren flickers a fire between his fingers "
However R'hollor is grand, and there are own studychambers just for works on him, you should really read them sometimes, for a man as well read as you it is not befitting to be ignorant on such important matters!"


(OOC
Passive deception equals 12, i'm sorry, you were so close.
I "
hit"
back using convince http://orokos.com/roll/273003 (11) then 1 bonus dice http://orokos.com/roll/273005 (1) so grand total 11= beating you just, you take my will (5-your disposition damage reduction) for a grand total of 1 damage!)

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC: Eh, I knew it was a gamble. Also, note that you can roll '4d6k3' to handle the bonus die in a single roll. Oh, and note you can put the link in the url tag itself {url={link here}]Description{close url}, to avoid clutter, if you want.)

Daveth smiles, geneially. "
I might do, if I can find the time - that is always the issue. But I tell you now, I will not go all the way to Essos to indulge my curiosity. Speaking of, if it's not too private, I'm curious. You give the impression of being amongst the most scholarly men I've met not wearing a maester's chain. What were you looking for so far away from home?"


(I'm attempting to use my Charm to soften you up, here.
[url=Persuasion roll][/url]: 4d6 - 10
Success, but all damage is absorbed. Like me, darnit!

[Yoren longshore]

"
You flatter me, and I will have to tell you that you are no slouch when it comes to scholarly pursuits either."
Yoren gives a smile.
"
I went to Essos to find truths, however, I returned to tell people of the truths I found, so that they don't need to travel to Essos, only either listen to me, or find a book from a nearby library, to check the facts for themselves."
Yoren frowns for a second "
Although I would be careful reading maesters works, as they tend to bend the truths to fit their own agendas."

Ooc
Continuing to convince you: chipping away your hp 1 by 1:)
http://orokos.com/roll/273039 (12)

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC note: my composure is now 7)

Daveth smiles and nods acknowledgement of the compliment. "
Oh, come now! A learned man like you surely realises that *everything* is written or said with an agenda. It may be a benevolent agenda, but everyone filters the world through their own perceptions, and writes according to their own biases, regardless of how good or ill their intent is. It's what makes relying on a single source so risky. And part of what makes study so fun - figuring the agenda of the author out!

Still, it's an impressive thing, to throw everything aside in pursuit of truth. It must have been hard. I'm still curious, though, and forgive me if I pry, but why Essos? If you're going to go that far, why that particular place?"


(OOC: Trying again. Because I don't learn.
[url=Persuasion roll:][/url] 4d6 - 15 (But I do improve at least!)
So, that's 2 degrees of success, 8 damage, absorbed down to 4. Your composure is now 11. Woo! First 'blood' this campaign! )

[Yoren longshore]

Yoren cannot help himself he feels a little ashamed to think that he had to tellthis man how everyone has a biased view, and cannot resist to start smiling at why he chose Essos.
"
Yes, I pursued knowledge to Essos, why you asked, because of the maesters, everyone distrusts an ironborn in a library, most would be surprised to find a literate ironborn. In Essos they don't treat Ironborn any different than any other westerosi. I traveled to Quarth, to Assai to learn how our culture started, and admittedly as there is great gold in protecting a merchant in assai, then I followed the movements of people, and saw how the first mens gods was stopped worshipped and the seven took their place, and I thought to myself: People here was the start of the andal gods, they have knowledge we lack, and then it was done, i knew that i had to know the true religion before i left, and i found it in R'hollor."


Ooc
Ouch that hurt:)
I rolled a total of five, on 4 dice, so your turn:)

[Yoren longshore]

http://orokos.com/roll/273047 I forgot link, sorry.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

"
I have to say, I find that tragic. Were I a maester, for sure I would have encouraged your studies. By what right do we criticise ironborn raiders if we force them away from every other path? If in a hundred years, the Ironborn were feared for raiding bookshelves rather than villages, and for cutting words rather than axes, would that not be a world a scholar could be pleased with?

"
My pride forces me to ask, however, was this in the North? The faith of the seven has rather ... exclusive views. No doubt you remember that you have to be of that faith in order to be considered a true knight by the kingdom? And they have further strict requirements. In the North, we tend to be more ... meritocratic. Practical. If a man has the skill and attitude, we consider them as a knight, even if we don't use the formalities thereof. The same for any woman, something southerners would never accept. I'd like to hope that we could apply the same mindset to a scholar, no matter his home or kin. Such an attitude is interwoven with both our culture, and our faith."


(OOC: Trying again.
[url=Persuade][/url]: 4d6 - 12
Urgh. Absorbed again.)

[Yoren longshore]

"
I find that the north is more accomodating too, however, the north is as we know a mostly practical place, you will not find many great northern philosophers, that is not to say I don't like their nature, I just believe that scholars like you and me needs to to learn philosophy too. Philosophical Thinking is an exercise they have perfected in the east, and an inteligent man like you should surely rely upon thinking to aid his familiy. They may be mostly concerned with the practical, but exercising your mental faculty will surely make you more usefull, both practically and theoretically so you should really read more literature the maesters would not enjoy."


Ooc
http://orokos.com/roll/273057 (rolled 13) so chipping another one
this is getting tiring, as I find lited rp within persuading you, would you want to finish this intrigue, or should i present yielding conditions for me on my next turn? I just feel that we may be stuck here for quite some time if not...

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC: Honestly, yeah, go with the yield conditions. It doesn't take your action, so you don't lose anything if I refuse/counter-offer, and when we know where we'll end up, we can RP to there more smoothly. Tomorrow. I'm tired now.

My composure is now 6. All you need is a roll of 15 to win.

Oh, for pity's sake!

[url=Persuasion][/url]: 4d6 - 11

Absorbed. Again. I should have Considered-Read to start with, then this would be going a lot quicker.)

"
Alright, Yoren."
Daveth leans forward. "
I can recognise your intelligence, so I know you won't blindly believe what you do. How *does* philosophical thinking exercise my brain better than thinking that simultaneously helps me learn something useful? We are a practical people out of necessity. If we're not, people die. People who we're close with. If I spend time learning about your god, instead of how to better heal our soldiers, if I fail to save one, would that knowledge help me ever forgive myself? I don't mean to be insulting or dismissive, but these are literally the decisions I have to make every day. I am my house's only healer of note. What can I learn today that will save the most lives, long-term? You say R'hollor?"
he leans back. "
Justify that claim."
Daveth's tone is serious, but not hostile. It's a genuine question, and an important one to him.

[Yoren longshore]

"
You heal the bodies of men, however is there not a strong correlation between the bodies and the souls of men? Men may continue to fight regardless of wounds that surely should at the very least incapacitate them, through clean power of will.” He smiles “You talk of long term, is peoples eternal soul longterm enough for you? Even if you want to stay in the realms of mortals, think of it this way, R’hollor grants highly practical abilities to his followers. I myself has been blessed with both clear-sightedness and ability to fuel fires. Who knows what he could grant to you.
However if you wish I may try to talk to the godswood here, so that I may feel its wisdom, so can you read up on R’hollor, and maybe you’ll find that there are secrets not taught at oldtown.”

OOC Yield terms: Both look into the other religion +sorry I could not resist using that last quote

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC, as again short on time: In principle, I agree to the yield terms. In practice, there's an issue. All you have to do is spend some time meditating or whatever in the godswood. Can you provide me with a relevant book to read? Because if you can't, the library is *huge*, and R'hollor isn't exactly a common subject, so I'll likely have to spend many, many hours searching, which I can't really afford.
If you can provide me an easy way to look into the religion, I'll agree.)

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