[D4, Early Morning] Business over Breakfast (Closed)

[Nathaniel Mason]

Nathan entered Lord Davain's pavilion. He had changed from last night, but still dressed in a reserved fashion;
this morning in a very dark forest green.

"
My Lord."
he began. "
Thank you for seeing us at this early hour. May I introduce you to Master Daveth Coldbrook, the representative of House Coldbrook, and Ser Jorah Holt. They are here to discuss how House Bartheld and House Coldbrook might mutually benefit each other, and yourself of course."

[Ser Jorah Holt]

"
My Lord."
Ser Jorah is formally dressed in crimson and bows to Lord Davain.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Daveth spent a fair amount of time making himself look presentable before arriving. Nerves fluttered across his body as he saw Lord Davain Bartheld, and wondered just what sort of a man he was dealing with.

Still, he gives a crisp bow, of a depth required to a head of house. "
Lord Bartheld. Thank you for agreeing to meet with us on such short notice."
It's in your interests, to be sure, but being polite never hurt.

[Reader]

"
We are honoured to receive you."


Davain's servants provide water and buttered breads, simple fare for the early hour.

He bows deeply to Daveth, keen to return to respect freely given.

"
I lack my uncle's facility with words, I fear? No matter. Have you spoken with him?"


He pauses.

"
Know this - I am the rightful heir to House Bartheld, and will remember those who help me. House Bartheld is rich in friends - how can we help the Coldbrooks?"


He's unusually plain spoken for a noble, and unusually confident for a young man. It is a confidence born of simple conviction and certainty rather than a braggart's arrogance.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

"
I have not spoken with your uncle yet, though I freely admit that I intend to before making a final decision."
Daveth replies, as he sits where invited.

"
And as for your right to the lordship, I agree."
Daveth says simply. "
In a just world, you would be lord."
he leans back, and his tone turns serious. "
But we don't live in a just world."


Now, Daveth. Do you have the courage to risk offending him? What you intend to say could make him your enemy, and he could still win. Are you sure you want to do this?

Yes. You need to push a man to see his steel.

"
No doubt you're aware by now that your uncle has 'influenced' Lord Tully to challenge your legitimacy? Not to mention, he's got the support of Ser Jon acting as his advocate, and I believe this masked ball is hosted by your uncle rather than you yourself? In short, he's pulling out all the stops to displace you."


Daveth looks straight at Lord Davain. "
What I want to know is if you're ready to *fight* for your right to rule. Because if you're intending to rely on nothing but truth and justice to win, you'll lose."
Daveth's voice betrays his anger and frustration at his own statement, but his voice is firm. "
You chose your advocate well"
in a lighter voice, nodding towards Nathan. "
A nice, helpful person, who tries to be fair and reasonable.

"
But that won't be enough to win. Not against your uncle. And there is nothing you can offer that will make me support a doomed cause."


Daveth leans forward again, and his voice shows fire behind it. "
That's what I'm here for, Lord Davain Bartheld. Convince me that there's still hope for justice in this world."

[Reader]

A man after Davain's own heart. Would that his family was full of men like this! There is no hint of offence as Davain listens patiently.

"
Both Ser Fendrel and I have provided a blessing for the initial festivities we are to host, although there was talk of Ser Fendrel providing additional vintages from his part of our house's funds. I confess to feeling our resources are better spent elsewhere, but long-term investment is not a crime."


"
Calumnies may have been spoken of me, but as yet I see no proof of my uncle's hand in this, although it is clear he benefits. I beg you, allow me to believe this is Ser Jon's ambition rather than one of my few remaining blood relatives turning against me in seeking Lord Tully's aid."


"
I will do anything necessary to secure sensible ruler-ship for my house, short of striking against my blood. I have too little family left as it is. If we spike of justice, then there are none as accursed as those who move against their on kin, whether under the eyes of the Old Gods or the New. Subject to the constraints of the Seven I shall fight to the last."


"
I will strive for justice - unlike Ser Fendrel, my purse is yet full and my sister favours me, rather than Ser Fendrel. I am convinced she would prefer any marriage I make to one made by my uncle. While my cause is just, it is supported by coin, and House Bartheld's voice can still offer support to many causes."


Throughout, he voice rings with conviction. This is a man who believes in his cause, but in honour too.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

This was a man Ser Jorah could see himself supporting;
a man after his own heart. However, those who play the game would normally play it with far less honour.

"
You are a man of honour, that much is evident. Would you consider your Uncle to play by the same rules? Your man has done much for you, but Ser Jon has certainly been more obviously trying to convince everybody to support your Uncle."

[Reader]

Davain bows in his seat to Ser Jorah.

"
My thanks for your kind words. My Uncle's rules are his own, and I have seen no evidence of foul play on his part yet. Ser Jon is his own man, and his sins his own."


"
What does it profit me if I can dominion over House Bartheld, but at the cost of the very values I strive to protect?"

[Daveth Coldbrook]

He begs me. Should I say what is on my mind?

A Lord should not show mercy out of pity, but out of a sense of justice.

"
Lord Davain. If I were to hire a man, known for his skill, but of a ... let's say of an ethical flexibility, within fairly broad limits. And I paid him to accomplish a task for me, without setting limits on his behaviour, trusting him enough to give him control of my pursestrings, and he uses this to do something morally questionable. Could you honestly say that I did not share in the responsibility for that action?"
he lets the question hang for a second or two, before waving it away, indicating that there was no need for an answer if Lord Davain didn't wish to give one.

It is not my role here to be his friend. I may yet be his enemy. But an honourable man deserves his eyes to be open, and a friend would likely hesitate to hurt him so.

"
I am glad to hear you say what you have done. Family is important, and you can get far further with an honourable cause and a heavy purse than you can with an honourable cause alone."
again, Daveth doesn't hide his anger that it is so. "
However, I trust that you are aware that, given your uncle's skills, unless you are careful, the vast majority of the goodwill for your party will go to him, regardless of who actually paid for it?"


"
The question that I would next like answered is 'why'. Why do you want to be Lord? I am not saying you shouldn't be, or that you have no reason. But you're a smart enough man to know that this fight will get messy before it's resolved. That it *will* damage your house. And yet, you're still committed to the fight. I would hear you state your reasons, if you're willing."

[Reader]

Davain signals his agreement with Davain's hypothetical scenario on a lord's responsibility for a vassal's conduct with a firm nod.

"
Why? I shall not talk to you of birthrights or legitimacy. I shall usher in a new chapter in Bartheld history, less extravagant, more stable."


"
Bartheld hospitality has won us many friends, I will not dispute that. What I dispute is their constancy. Better to have a few loyal allies than ten times as many fair weather friends."


"
Instead of parties, provisions shall be set aside for bad weather and poor harvests, protecting the peasantry. No more of drunken revels, duels and nobles forcing themselves on the populace, polluting the land."


"
Why have twenty nobles entertain themselves on a hunt, bringing back a single boar and scaring off all the game, when two skilled, quiet hunters can yield a multiple of the larger party's efforts?"


"
I cannot promise entertainment, but in this unstable times I shall strive for security and prosperity."


He grows in conviction and volume as he speaks, losing some of his normal measured delivery.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Nathan smiles at Davain's fervor. If Daveth thought prudence meant a lack of passion, he was mistaken.

"
Lord Daveth. Dances, balls and tourneys have their place, of course, but the leader of a House must concern himself with all aspects of his House, not just the ones that are the most pleasurable or garner the most notoriety. Many people, for example, would consider the mating of ravens to be a singularly boring subject, but such tasks must be done if a House will grow and prosper. It cannot always be wine, women and song. The party must end eventually, if only that the musicians might rest.

Also, hospitality does not necessarily mean extravagance. Were you to visit Hart House, I can promise you would be greeted with great hospitality. Perhaps you would not be shown quite the... spectacle... that has be shown in the past, but the welcome would be warm none the less. If guests seek more, extravagant entertainment, there are still options available to them close at hand."
Nathan smiles.

[Reader]

Davain smiles at this.

"
Nathaniel's establishment shall remain in place - hospitality for those who desire it, peace and prosperity for the small folk, a clean name for House Bartheld."

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Davain signals his agreement with Davain's hypothetical scenario on a lord's responsibility for a vassal's conduct with a firm nod.

So. He agrees, but doesn't apply said logic to his uncle? Hmm. I'll keep that in mind.

He grows in conviction and volume as he speaks, losing some of his normal measured delivery.

Daveth smiles slightly in response. This. This is why I have to meet you face to face, Lord Davain. Show me your passion, for *there* is truth.

"
Nathaniel's establishment shall remain in place - hospitality for those who desire it, peace and prosperity for the small folk, a clean name for House Bartheld."

So, Nathan *is* a business owner. He looks about my age or younger, but he runs a business, and feels comfortable walking among nobles. Hmmm. And he seemed pleased at the 'more extravagant entertainment' options being nearby.

Finally, the penny drops. Ohhhhhhhh. *That's* what he meant by 'entertainer'. No wonder he supports Lord Davain - simultaneously a more protective lord, and less competition. He glances at Nathan for a moment, considering. I wonder how 'connected' he is.

Focusing his attention back on Lord Davain. "
Your main argument is premised on the friends your house currently has being unreliable. I'm not asking you to name names, but has that been a serious problem? As far as I'd heard, house Bartheld had prospered for all this time because of your friends. If they were as bad as you say, I'm surprised you're as prosperous as you are."
his tone is carefully respectful to the lord.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Nathan, who had been watching Daveth with interest, gave a soft, wry smile as he saw the penny drop in his eyes.

[url=Awareness (Empathy)][/url]: 3d6 15

[OOC: What is Daveth's current Dispostion towards him and the topic discussed?]

[Reader]

"
I suppose perhaps we are like the duck in this respect - smooth on the surface, with furious motion underneath."


"
Resources must be expended in smoothing certain ruffled feathers, and at times good men and women sent away. By hard effort and good fortune the house has avoided disgrace so far, but we have not been without incident, and you can only roll the dice so many times without losing."


"
You will forgive me if I avoid a list of shameful incidents, for my family's sake and to protect the innocent."

[Daveth Coldbrook]

(OOC: At least in my version of the rules, Empathy tests are against my passive Persuasion, instead of Deception, which would actually be 16. Did that change in the GoT version?

Edit: Apparently so! So, Daveth's disposition towards Nathan is still amiable. Regarding the conversation, he's torn. On the one hand, Lord Davain is basically Daveth, if he were born a Bartheld. Daveth genuinely likes him. On the other hand, Lord Davain's got a serious battle on his hands to beat his uncle and Ser Jon, and Daveth doesn't want the Coldbrooks to gain new enemies, not to mention that Lord Davain's Green, while the Coldbrooks and Ser Fendrel are Black, so another part of him is listening and remembering for potential future advantage.

Short version: personally sympathetic, politically undecided.)

Daveth nods acknowledgement at the answer. "
You clearly have a strong vision for the future of your house, Lord Davain. But, if you'll indulge me, I am a little unclear on something. At the moment, your house is known for its particular brand of hospitality. That is what makes it stand out and be recognised, like we Coldbrooks stand out for our emphasis on martial matters.

"
While I understand that you intend to manage your finances in a more responsible and sustainable fashion, it seems obvious that your efforts will make Bartheld hospitality less unique. Do you have an idea of what will replace it in the minds of other nobles? What will make them think of *you*, rather than one of the many other lords in the kingdom? 'Sensible budgeting' is a fine virtue, and one I personally strongly approve of, but it doesn't attract attention, and therefore opportunities, like other, probably less worthy, traits do."

[Nathaniel Mason]

"
If I may, Lord Davain."
interjects Nathan. "
Your question implies, Daveth, that House Bartheld is withdrawing it's famed hospitality. That is not true, despite what others might say. The only thing that will change is the excess and extravagance in which it is delivered, and perhaps the frivolity of it's purpose.

I know that some might wish you to believe that prudency means joylessness, but you are too intelligent to fall for such obvious sophistry. The fact is, hospitality requires coin, and without a strong financial foundation, the party will soon end regardless of who is host. Already Ser Fendrel spends House coin as if it was inexhaustible. Will House Bartheld continue to be known for it's hospitality if it is impoverished? What of the smallfolk when there is no more gold for guards to patrol the lands, or a new wells to be dug, or mills to be built, or roads to be maintained. I am large believer in pleasure, Master Daveth, but pleasure must be paid for.

It is a shame that Ser Fendrel chose to challenge the succession rather than working with his Lord. As a loyal supporter I think he would have helped strengthen House Bartheld to remarkable levels."
Nathan sighs. The problem with being able to see both sides was also seeing there need not be sides.

"
In any case, I don't see any reason why House Bartheld cannot be renowned for good stewardship as well as hospitality, and there is nothing to say that the type of events to which Fendrel ascribes can't continue, if with less frequency. If something becomes rarer, does that not just add to it uniqueness?"

[Ser Jorah Holt]

"
From what I have heard of House Bartheld's military resources, it wouldn't take much to pay them,"
Ser Jorah smiled, "
but seriously, how much support do you have within your own house for these changes? It does seem a little interesting that both parties seem to have somebody outside of House Bartheld acting on their behalf."

[Nathaniel Mason]

Nathan chuckled. "
You are, of course, correct. House Bartheld is hardly a force to be reckoned with militarily, although that is slowly changing under Lord Davain's stewardship."


"
I assure you, Ser Jorah. Ser Fendrel is working tirelessly on his own behalf, and Ser Jon is being paid very well for his services."
he smiles. "
Unfortunately, his Lordship does not have that luxury and must concentrate primarily on the running of his House. I have offered what assistance I can, however small that may be.

And, before you ask, contrary to popular rumor, I am not being paid. I am here because I firmly believe that this is in best interests for both the House and it's people, and my interests as well. I am obviously not completely altruistic. There are certainly ways I could benefit and opportunities I would have if Ser Fendrel was Lord.

Master Daveth said we do not live in a just world, but that is because people often put their own self-interest before what is just, rather than aligning their self-interest with what is just."


I wonder which you two will do.

[Reader]

"
As Nathaniel has ably pointed out, Bartheld hospitality would go on, but allied with efficient management. Mayhap the hosts would even do a better job if we did not partake so vigorously?"


Then, in what is either a simple statement of fact or a rare glimpse of dry humour, he states.

"
I can confirm Nathaniel is not being paid. I doubt I could afford his services."


"
He turns to Ser Jorah - my cousin Edmund is my man through and through, he is like a brother to me. Beyond that, much of the house is wisely undecided - the arrows finds the head that sticks above the parapet, no?"


"
That is to their credit in many cases - Maester Forthwind rightly takes his vows to the citadel seriously."


Indeed, there were too things the good maester took seriously - food and fidelity.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Daveth nods at the answers given.

"
I have another question. And I'm fairly certain you won't like it. But I will ask, regardless, and simply hope you understand why I do."
he fixes Lord Davain with a serious look. "
If you were guaranteed a portion of House Bartheld's income after expenses - say 50% for the sake of argument, to invest however you liked - in infrastructure, in helping protect your smallfolk, however you felt best for your house;
would you be willing to abdicate the Lordship in favour of your uncle? He would have to cut back the parties rather, due to his decreased finances, but he would no doubt still manage a fair few. And he may well consider half the parties as definitely the Lord is better than all the parties as maybe the Lord.

"
I do not put this forward as a 'just' idea, for I admit it is not. And I have absolute no idea if it's an idea your uncle would even consider. But what it *does* do is avoid a fight that will not only drain your family's coffers when you really need to be saving for dark times ahead, but would probably also cause a rift in your family that may take generations to heal, if it ever does.

"
And that's not to mention how bad things will get should you approach victory. Your name may grant you protection from harm, Lord Davain. But there are those who support you who do not share that protection."
a look towards Nathan "
I mean no insult to your capabilities, but Ser Jon is not to be underestimated, and as time wears on, other targets, perhaps less talented, will present themselves."
turning back to Lord Davain "
Whoever wins between you, I rather fear their victory toast will taste of nothing but ashes."

[Reader]

Davain Bartheld, he who would be lord, seems troubled by this question.

"
A difficult quesiton, but a fair one, at least as a hypothetical. I must confess it feels like being paid with my own coin."


He shakes his head.

"
No matter."


"
I want what is best for House Bartheld, but I have borrowed my family name from my father and he from Brom before him. What honour in the name they gave me, if I am passed over in favour of my uncle. I would be only too pleased to have Ser Fendrel as an able lieutenant, but to reverse the situation leaves my father's honour in tatters. It casts him a cuckold, and my dearly departed mother an adulteress. This I cannot have."


"
If Northern wisdom can cut through this knot, then I am open to at least entertaining the idea, for the good of House Bartheld, but only as a last resort. Master Daveth, please do not think me any less resolute for this desire to place my House first."

[Nathaniel Mason]

"
As you point out, that particular sword does cut both ways."
says Nathan. "
I would be interested to know Ser Fendrel's response when you put the question to him."


"
Since the Knight seems almost entirely focused on the House's social standing within the nobility, perhaps such a compromise should be possible. If, hypothetically, Ser Fendrel were given responsibility for the Balls, Hunts, and Tourneys that House Bartheld hosts, along with a reasonable amount of coin with which to hold them, that should satisfy his interests and assuage his fears. It would also free Lord Davain to concentrate on the necessary, if more mundane responsibilities of his House."


"
Of course, if he is interested in more than just House Bartheld's famed hospitality. If he has chosen to undermine his Lord out of a desire to replace him. If his real motivation is one of power and status, then no such compromise will be possible, however reasonable."

[Daveth Coldbrook]

"
I am fully aware it is a big thing to ask, Lord Davain, and trust that I think none the less of you for your hesitation. I do indeed fully intend to mention this idea to your uncle, and am as interested as Nathan is for his reaction.

"
However, if I am to make this idea palatable to him, I will, I am fairly sure, need a couple of assurances, so forgive me for acting as his advocate in this matter. Firstly, that he has final say over Balls, Hunts, and Tourneys that House Bartheld hosts, so long as he has the coin to support his ideas. In terms of their numbers, their invitees, their content, everything. As far as those matters are concerned, he *is* Lord.

"
Secondly, those kind of occasions are always part pleasure, part business. I believe you will need to offer him significant diplomatic power to make and craft deals on your behalf with the guests. Exactly where you draw the line can wait for final negotiations, should things get that far. But people need to have confidence that they can talk with Ser Fendrel and trust his word when he tells them that a thing will be done.

"
When I discuss this matter with Ser Fendrel, do I have your permission to include these items as incentive to bring him to the negotiation table with you, to discuss specifics? Or are either of them a deal-breaker for you?"

[Reader]

"
Subject to my mother and father having their honour upheld."


"
I fear this is a fool's errand Master Daveth and I retain doubts over being paid with what is mine, but that does not diminish my appreciation for your attempts to find a peaceful path."


"
House Bartheld must come first."


But would this simply prolong the uncertainty over House Bartheld's rulership? Time would tell.

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