Re: Character Creation Workshop

by **Gwyneth Drakeson** Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:00 pm

Hehe, Yves and Gwynneth are two characters I am eying...but I've made no choice yet.

I do feel like there's a place in this cast for a female schemer/social type though.

At this point it's less about flexibility as just trying to get ideas. Smile

Corinne would be interesting, but it feels a little weird since I spent so much time around her in the previous game.

by **Reader** Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:05 pm

Happy for you to play Gwyn as a Marsten if that would be a good compromise? Corrine is a really interesting character and available, she'd make a great role too. Appreciate you spent a lot of time in her company in Southron Ambitions, but sure you could put your own stamp on her.

A female schemer is a great way to help capture Westeros's flavour.

Failing the above, there's always the custom character route. Smile

by **Gwyneth Drakeson** Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:21 pm

Yep yep, lots of options. I just like to get these questions on the table early, while my concept ideas haven't solidified yet. Smile

by **Benedict Marsten** Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:21 pm

Any of the 3 mentioned would be great additions.

by **Theomore Tullison** Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:57 pm

If you want a schemer, then Yve/Gwyn/Ayleth would be the pregens to work with. Corrie doesn't quite play that sort of game, she might with some retooling of course.

by **Reader** Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:16 pm

Zorbeltuss wrote:If you want a schemer, then Yve/Gwyn/Ayleth would be the pregens to work with. Corrie doesn't quite play that sort of game, she might with some retooling of course.

Good point on Ayleth - I should add that she has a key role to play in deciding who rules House Bartheld. Her marriage agreement was to marry the new lord of house Bartheld - a new wasn't specified!

Whoever she chose to wed between Davain and Fendrel would claim increased political support and legitimacy.

by **Theomore Tullison** Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:00 pm

Yes, well, she might decide to wed someone else entirely....but that was the SA story.

by **Gwyneth Drakeson** Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:07 pm

Ayleth...yes, I hadn't considered her.

HMMM. Many ideas. I want to take a peek at the character generation rules too and see if I get any ideas entirely my own.

Are we using the 'Game of Thrones' rules, or the regular rules? Or is there a difference?

by **Ser Jorah Holt** Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:17 pm

House Coldbrook could always do with a schemer :;
):

by **Reader** Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:24 pm

Salmon Max wrote:Ayleth...yes, I hadn't considered her.

HMMM. Many ideas. I want to take a peek at the character generation rules too and see if I get any ideas entirely my own.

Are we using the 'Game of Thrones' rules, or the regular rules? Or is there a difference?

Rules are effectively the same in both editions, GoT has some errata. Your old books will serve fine!

by **Benedict Marsten** Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:12 am

Colin Corbray wrote:Hello people!

Just gonna throw in that I'll be going for the Marstens with a young knight looking to earn glory for himself and longing for a war to prove his valor and win glory.He thinks that tournaments are good, but a war would be something. Its not impossible that he'll aim to win the admiration of the Marsten heir and that way become a lord, but I'm not sure about it.

His background is that he'll be a Corbray from a lesser branch who has kind of found a place with the Marstens after deciding that he didn't want to stay and be overshadowed by his better born relatives.

Ser Corbin if looking for connections to other PCs/Houses, I would suggest that my PC was at house Marsten for some time squiring under Ser Markus. Let me know if you are interested when you have worked out your background.

by **Baelon Drakeson** Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:19 am

Salmon Max wrote:Hehe, Yves and Gwynneth are two characters I am eying...but I've made no choice yet.

I do feel like there's a place in this cast for a female schemer/social type though.

At this point it's less about flexibility as just trying to get ideas.

Corinne would be interesting, but it feels a little weird since I spent so much time around her in the previous game.

Zorbeltuss wrote:If you want a schemer, then Yve/Gwyn/Ayleth would be the pregens to work with. Corrie doesn't quite play that sort of game, she might with some retooling of course.

Don't forget there are good adult and middle-aged options, too:
Lady Alianna Coldbrook
Lady Braya Kytley (with some significant adjustments)
Hawys Kytley
Lady Isobel Marsten

by **Theomore Tullison** Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:05 am

Dug out my old thoughts on the matter here: viewtopic.php?p=263#p263

I'd skip Hawys IMO, and Isobel...well, she's not on the pre-gen list last I checked, but if I put my narrator-glasses on, I can see it work with an experienced player. Alianna and Braya are both interesting options indeed.

by **Reader** Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:58 am

Players are welcome to ask to play interesting narrator characters not listed as pregens. A few are off limits but most are a available!

by **Baelon Drakeson** Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:34 pm

Zorbeltuss wrote:Dug out my old thoughts on the matter here: viewtopic.php?p=263#p263

I pretty much agree with all of that post, though with slight modifications some of the pre-gens could be a bit different/more interesting. For instance, make Corinne more strongly interested in Gareth Stone, and have her realize that her mother is keeping some sort of secret from her. Or just make her less passive, and make her actively seeking a marriage agreement.

Similarly with Hawys. De-emphasize the relationship with Ser Morys, amplify the antagonism between her and her brother, and she would most likely be looking for an excuse to get out of House Kytley no matter the cost - or at least no matter the cost to House Kytley.

Pretty much all of the pre-gens need some mechanical modifications... Lady Braya is a schemer with 3 persuasion and 3 deception? She might be able to scheme within House Kytley (with mostly friendly &
affectionate dispositions), but not much else...

Zorbeltuss wrote:I'd skip Hawys IMO, and Isobel...well, she's not on the pre-gen list last I checked, but if I put my narrator-glasses on, I can see it work with an experienced player. Alianna and Braya are both interesting options indeed.

I was just pulling out female schemer types with stats from the chronicle starter... I wasn't paying attention to who was listed on the pre-gen pages. Smile

I think the biggest problem with Lady Braya and Hawys is that the Kytleys are most interesting with an active House Dulver. If any of the chronicle starter houses were built to get into a conflict its those two. I don't want to go into details so as not to ruin any surprises for those who haven't read the chronicle starter/played in a game where the conflict came out.

Its kind of a shame that they seem to be the least popular houses;
the aggressor house would want some allies before attacking, and the other house would likely have made some allies by then, too... that one conflict could easily pull in the rest of the houses.

by **Ser Jorah Holt** Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:41 pm

I wonder why neither House is popular;
Dulver has the Lannister connection, but maybe its the turnips putting people off. Kytley, I'm guessing people aren't fussed about House Frey.

by **Reader** Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:22 pm

Southdown ambitions had some good Kytlet players and Erryk Dulcer in BITW was great. Only takes a few to make a big difference.

At the moment we've already got enough for four houses, and we've only been open for a week. Good momentum, appreciate the strong early sign ups.

Currently two black houses v two greens, which is not essential but helpful.

by **Baelon Drakeson** Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:42 pm

Corrigon wrote:I wonder why neither House is popular;
Dulver has the Lannister connection, but maybe its the turnips putting people off. Kytley, I'm guessing people aren't fussed about House Frey.

The liege lords could have something to do with it, but I suspect there are other reasons. For one, neither house is particularly flashy - both lords are more interested in commerce than warfare or politicking. Both houses have humble appearances - Dulver turnips and Kytley bogs are not glamorous. Popular character tropes such as shining knights and blushing maidens are a bit out of place there compared to the other houses.

In short they are not the most glamorous or noble of the houses, and I think most players want to either be a part of that kind of glamor and nobility or to play against it;
either one is more difficult(though not impossible) in those two houses.

by Colin Corbray Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:28 pm

I like the Lannisters but I wanted to give the Arryns a try. Otherwise I would jump ship at once to fight for the Lion.

by **Gwyneth Drakeson** Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:11 pm

There's a death spiral effect that happens. Limited players, and a glut of houses and roles. The first few people who jump in define the attractive options.

Like, I'm mostly interested in Houses that already have a showing, because I want to be able to interact with other PCs. Tullison is the big one, and Marsten a close second both because of the player already in it, and because their story is closely entwined with Tullison.

I actually like Ayleth, for example, but I'm concerned that her main connections are either with NPCs, or through NPCs. She has influence over the fate of the House, but as a player I'm most interested in who this puts her in the path of, and whois in her path.

Gwyn is much more interesting from that angle. She has at least one connection to another PC, and possibly more depending on who else joins. And she has a very clear goal that makes her easy to wrap my head around. And there's still some mystery to her;
Why is she so desperate to escape Marsten? There's a note about Isobel wanting her out to safeguard Corrine's claim, but Gwyn is clearly not a softball player. If she can stand up to Yves and Company, why not Isobel?

It's all very interesting, and it gives her some RP potential that I can grasp right out of the gate that makes her more attractive to me than Ayleth.

Even though, statwise and positionwise, Ayleth is a 'better' choice. Smile

by **Reader** Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:18 pm

Great to have your thoughts.

Fear not on stats - these can be tweaked.

How about running Gwyn but as a Marsten? Or Yve, but capping Tullisons at four until others fill.

Or would you like to wait and see if we get either key Bartheld heir taken and leave Ayleth as an option?

Agree Gwyn is interesting as we've got Dunstan. Smile

by **Gwyneth Drakeson** Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:27 pm

Well, Gwyn IS a Marsten. She's included in the Tullison camp, but I think the dynamic between her and House Marsten is at least as intriguing as the dynamic between her and Tullison. She's a person stuck between Houses right now. Where do her loyalties lie? Does she even know herself?

I really like that.

Ayleth would be more attractive with more direct PC connections. Bartheld has PCs in it, but I can't tell how involved they are in the succession crisis. And further, the succession crisis 'feels' less ambiguous to me. Davain and Ayleth, together, would be great leaders. The uncle's claim seems really threadbare, and who would support him over them...unless he made it worth their while, of course. But from a player perspective, it really feels like the uncle's position is, "
Nyah, I can't have my parties and orgies anymore and I hate you so PUT ME IN CHARGE WAAHHH!"

That might make him attractive to people who feel the same way, but it doesn't create an ambiguous situation in my mind. Smile

I think Ayleth's story could be pretty cool, don't get me wrong. But it also feels like it plays out on its own, far from the other stories. If Bartheld was not at the Tourney, and the entire drama played out at their Hold, would it be any different? Maaaaaybe, but probably only because PCs can be nosy. Smile

by **Theomore Tullison** Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:36 pm

Stats are just suggestions, and most of them ought to be tweaked to better fit the character. Like half the pre-gen knights missing spear specialization, which is silly considering that all of them would be riding around with lances. But that's GR not being smarter than a 4th grader.

I redid Ayleth's from scratch. I also rewrote most of her background. So that can be tweaked as well.

Thing is, pre-gens serves two purposes:
1. Populate the houses and game with characters.
2. Serve as something those without the inspiration to make something from scratch can pick up and tailor as much as they desire.

I did Ayleth because of 2, or rather, I figured I didn't want to play the first character I made, and why make a new character when Ayleth already had enough interesting elements to work with? I briefly considered Fendrel, heh.

by **Reader** Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:41 pm

Gwyn as a Marsten then? She has a very interesting story to play out and links to existing PCs.

Feel free to keep debating ideas or let me know when you've settled.

by **Gwyneth Drakeson** Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:49 pm

Hehe, I didn't mean to imply her story wasn't up to par. Just that I was more intrigued by the ambiguity in Gwyn's position.

And yeah, right now I'm leaning towards Gwyn. Putting her into Marsten would be fine.

Perhaps this takes place before she takes up residence with the Tullisons to press her suit...or perhaps she's simply bent (never broken) to pressure from Yves and has returned for a time to the Marstens, but intends to renew her quest at the Tourney.

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