Re: Character Creation Workshop

[Reader]

Either of those sound good, whichever you prefer to work with. Yve sending her packing might give you, Yve and Dunstan some fun history, or we can go with the clean slate approach for flexibility.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Lets wait and see if a player decides to pick Yves up.

The specifics of the situation aren't necessary to know immediately. I'll still want to look the books over, and Gwyn over, and see if I want to tweak anything. Then you and I will need to do some Q&
A via PM to get certain specifics wrangled out.

And then we will be in a position to decide how things fare vis a vis Dunstan, Yves, and the like.

[Reader]

Excellent, as before you're free to change if another idea strikes, but Gwyn definitely fits well. Drop me a PM when you're ready to kick off.

[Jon Cobb]

As a Bartheld player, I'd just like to chip in on the matter of the Bartheld succession crisis.

I feel that how strong Fendrel's claim appears depends very much on how Davain is portrayed. As written in the Chronicle, Davain has the potential to provide firm leadership for his house, but at the same time he seems totally oblivious to Fendrel's plotting. It's also difficult to tell just how far he intends to go in reforming the house. It's clear that a large part of the Barthelds' influence comes from their traditon of parties and influence-peddling, but Davain seems to actively dislike such activities. How he intends to maintain his family's standing if he manages to stop the partying completely is unclear. If, as was the case in BITW, he is also portrayed as shying away from building the kind of interpersonal relationships that make a successful leader in Westeros, his suitability as leader of House Bartheld can be seriously called into question.

In contrast, Fendrel seems much more of a realist, and he's portrayed as a clever enough schemer that he should make an excellent leader for a house whose strength is all about interpersonal relationships. As written, he's also not actively malicious towards Davain - he holds true to the Bartheld tradition of no kinslaying, and his plotting stems from a sincere belief that he's the better man for the job. Without knowing what Davain really has to offer in place of the traditions that built the fortunes of House Bartheld, it's not surprising that his challenge has actual support from other important Barthelds.

Ayleth can help shore up Davain's position, but as written she would do so by effectively becoming the power behind the throne. Since she's only a Bartheld by marriage, I can certainly see a situation where Fendrel could turn a large part of the Barthelds against her - why should a Swann be running things when there's a perfectly capable Bartheld available for the job?

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Arr, it makes more sense when you put it that way. A lot of it was just the nuance escaping me, I'm sure.

[Reader]

As a Bartheld player, I'd just like to chip in on the matter of the Bartheld succession crisis.

I feel that how strong Fendrel's claim appears depends very much on how Davain is portrayed. As written in the Chronicle, Davain has the potential to provide firm leadership for his house, but at the same time he seems totally oblivious to Fendrel's plotting. It's also difficult to tell just how far he intends to go in reforming the house. It's clear that a large part of the Barthelds' influence comes from their traditon of parties and influence-peddling, but Davain seems to actively dislike such activities. How he intends to maintain his family's standing if he manages to stop the partying completely is unclear. If, as was the case in BITW, he is also portrayed as shying away from building the kind of interpersonal relationships that make a successful leader in Westeros, his suitability as leader of House Bartheld can be seriously called into question.

In contrast, Fendrel seems much more of a realist, and he's portrayed as a clever enough schemer that he should make an excellent leader for a house whose strength is all about interpersonal relationships. As written, he's also not actively malicious towards Davain - he holds true to the Bartheld tradition of no kinslaying, and his plotting stems from a sincere belief that he's the better man for the job. Without knowing what Davain really has to offer in place of the traditions that built the fortunes of House Bartheld, it's not surprising that his challenge has actual support from other important Barthelds.

Ayleth can help shore up Davain's position, but as written she would do so by effectively becoming the power behind the throne. Since she's only a Bartheld by marriage, I can certainly see a situation where Fendrel could turn a large part of the Barthelds against her - why should a Swann be running things when there's a perfectly capable Bartheld available for the job?

Jon has read the situation well.

Just a quick note to add - the Davain/Ayleth marriage hasn't happened yet (will check if I need to tweak character descriptions). Ayleth is promised to the "
Lord of House Bartheld"
- someone drafted the marriage contact poorly (or did they alter it!). Whoever secures Ayleth's hand helps solidify their claim as Lord.

[Jon Cobb]

Arr, it makes more sense when you put it that way. A lot of it was just the nuance escaping me, I'm sure.

The nuances are easy to miss in the Chronicle. Almost all the houses and character descriptions are quite open-ended, with lots of hints but very little concrete information on the hows and whys. I'm sure this is deliberate most of the time, but the poor editing doesn't help. The upside of this is that there's lots of room to put a personal spin on things;
the downside is that you pretty much have too. :;
):

[Ser Jorah Holt]

and its why there is the options for making the houses more grey at the end of each House

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

I think I'll just throw this out here to get some opinions...

What do people who don't need armor or weapons spend money on? Cuz, if I'm reading this right I have 28 crowns, which is kind of a crapton of money, and I don't see a single thing on the equipment list that really jumps out and screams, "
ME! BUY MEEEEE!"


I'm sure I'll buy some nice outfits and stuff...but that isn't gonna come close to the minimum spending on initial gear.

Help meeeeeee...

[Ser Jorah Holt]

Maybe an expensive horse or two

[Reader]

I think I'll just throw this out here to get some opinions...

What do people who don't need armor or weapons spend money on? Cuz, if I'm reading this right I have 28 crowns, which is kind of a crapton of money, and I don't see a single thing on the equipment list that really jumps out and screams, "
ME! BUY MEEEEE!"


I'm sure I'll buy some nice outfits and stuff...but that isn't gonna come close to the minimum spending on initial gear.

Help meeeeeee...

Good point.

I'll make an exception for our non combatants!

FYI all - the gift giving event will be expensive but come out of general house funds (and can be roleplayed as if you purchased/commissioned the gift prior to the tourney). Wealthy PCs may wish to make a personal contribution to their house's gift in the hope of finding favour.

[Dunstan Tullison]

I think I'll just throw this out here to get some opinions...

What do people who don't need armor or weapons spend money on? Cuz, if I'm reading this right I have 28 crowns, which is kind of a crapton of money, and I don't see a single thing on the equipment list that really jumps out and screams, "
ME! BUY MEEEEE!"


I'm sure I'll buy some nice outfits and stuff...but that isn't gonna come close to the minimum spending on initial gear.

Help meeeeeee...

Poison!

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

lol...yeah, after SA I'm not too eager to open THAT kettle of worms.

And Gwyn isn't the poisoning type. She likes to USE people, not KILL them.

But she's still young.

Thanks for the consideration, Reader!

One question...not sure if this is in the book, but I haven't read anything about it yet...are there rules for HIRING someone? Like, you can take a Benefit to have a man at arms watching your back, but he does it out of loyalty to you or your House. If you don't have that Benefit, but DO have a wallet full of gold, can you hire some sellsword to do the same? With the understanding that when the gold dries up, he'll move on to greener pastures, of course. Or if someone makes him a better deal. Or...etc etc.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Maybe a yellow gate on a black background.

Just ran across [url=House Rhysling][/url] on the wiki while looking something else up. Not exactly the same as you are describing, but similar.

I think I'll just throw this out here to get some opinions...

What do people who don't need armor or weapons spend money on? Cuz, if I'm reading this right I have 28 crowns, which is kind of a crapton of money, and I don't see a single thing on the equipment list that really jumps out and screams, "
ME! BUY MEEEEE!"


I'm sure I'll buy some nice outfits and stuff...but that isn't gonna come close to the minimum spending on initial gear.

Help meeeeeee...

That seems like an awful lot... 28/3.5 = 8 status? That's not likely.

Here's a chart of starting wealth by Status (for a typical range of statuses)

Code:

Status Starting Wealth
2 7gc
3 10.
5gc
4 14gc
5 17.
5gc

As for how to spend your money...
If you have a cohort, better gear for them (in BITW our Gwyneth had Ser Willain Marks as a cohort)
Other ideas - various pieces of jewelry, both as personal adornment and to give away as gifts/bribes - have a variety of values and styles
Works of art - also suitable for gifting, but harder to imagine that you would be traveling with them
Musical instrument(s) or other tools of arts
Poison for assassinations (kidding... maybe)
Medicine - for instance Tansy tea if she intends to be "
active"
, but also others if she aids in House Marsten's medical needs
A carriage to carry it all in

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Hm. I thought you took your Statusx3.5 and added it to the results of a Status roll.

I'd better reread that part again. Thanks for the catch, and the ideas!

Edit - Ah I see. Add STATIC bonuses, from Benefits and the like.

Well that fixes most of THAT problem.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Okay, I decided that Gwyneth really likes exotic glasswork. She's fascinated with crystals and fragile, beautiful things like that.

Most of her budget goes to clothes. She has to dress to impress. I spent 2 gold dragons on a sort of 'workaday wardrobe' which represents various pieces of well made, comfortable, pretty items of clothing that are appropriate for a noble who is just walking around the castle or out on the grounds.

Then 4 MORE dragons on a specific, really really nice outfit for balls and receptions and anytime Gwyn really wants to make an impression. I figure her jewelry is sneakily included in that cost too.

Then her horse is a fine courser, and cost 600 stags. Probably more than she needs, since she hardly rides, but at least when she does, she does it in style.

Then she spent some cash on her hobby. The Myrish have some very interesting glasswork that she's obsessed with;
lenses and the like. 320ss on a couple of those items. And then she paid 20 stags once on a visit to the North when she spied, of all things, a little dagger MADE of glass. They called it 'dragonglass' but it's really just sort of sooty, charcoally glass. It's very sharp, but she chipped it once playing with it, so she doesn't take it out much these days except just to admire the shine. I don't think it'd even occur to her to STAB someone with it unless her life was seriously in danger. It's art, not a weapon.

Which leaves her with 3 gold dragons and 110 stags to her name.

Does that seem about right? Excessive? Insufficient? Lend me your expertise.

[Reader]

Characterful and might lend itself to a fun scene or two.

Looks good to me!

Spare horse? Pack animal(s)?

Musical instrument?

I know some others suggested various poisons already, but perhaps some of the more medicinal ones? Milk of the poppy, sweet sleep, firemilk etc.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Hm. Is there a skill associated with playing an instrument? I suspect she doesn't have it, if so.

Though it might be funny if she likes playing something ineptly. I'll see what looks good.

Backup horse isn't a terrible idea, but I don't think it's how her brain works. She's not a knight or a man at arms. How would she ever lose a horse? It's impossible. They're huge.

(^_^)

And I do want her to have some spending money. Good for impromptu gifts, loosening tongues, and the like.

I will check out the medicinal stuff. Again, she doesn't fancy herself a healer, so I dunno if she'd carry it around...but she's a fairly resourceful person too, so there may be reasons to do so...

[Reader]

Gwyn - no particular skill attached to an instrument. An appropriate quality makes you truly talented, but I'm happy for anyone to be competent (or worse but enthusiastic!) based simply on their background.

For the attention of all, particularly those in House Coldbrook:

viewtopic.php?f=2&
t=11&
p=11#p11

I've edited House Coldbrook's history a little. There was a blood heir produced from Lord Coldbrook's marriage to Lady Coldbrook, but he died in his first tournament. Such a tragedy. I do believe his killer may even be among you, if he/she wishes to make himself known.

An accident? A deliberate act from his foe? A bastard's treachery? Poison from a weakling scholar?

Or just another victim of Castle Grenwald's curse?

[Nathaniel Mason]

Touching on the question of equipment. Do we have prices on the superior and extraordinary armor that has been added?

[Nathaniel Mason]

Gwyn - no particular skill attached to an instrument. An appropriate quality makes you truly talented, but I'm happy for anyone to be competent (or worse but enthusiastic!) based simply on their background.

There should be some skill attached if you are going to have things like music and singing contests.

We use Persuasion (Charm) for singing contests, Agility (Charm) for stringed instruments, Endurance (Charm) for wind instruments, and Persuasion (Charm)+Language rank for making speeches, storytelling and reciting poetry (+1D if you have Eloquent).

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

As the proud owner of Persuasion 4 and Charm 2B, I fully support this product and/or service.

[Reader]

That is indeed roughly how the contest will work - a variety of abilities with bonuses for the odd quality. specifics pre-game start so those who want to be particularly talented can be.

[Jon Cobb]

That is indeed roughly how the contest will work - a variety of abilities with bonuses for the odd quality. specifics pre-game start so those who want to be particularly talented can be.

Since there are no abilities that outright state that they encompass musical ability, I would suggest not locking musical skill to abilities such as Persuasion, Agility or Endurance. Let individual players suggest which ability and/or specialty they want to use and make the case for it instead.

For instance, learning to sing and play an instrument is probably a part of most noblewomen's education, so I would let them use Status for such tests if they wanted to. Alternately, Education or even Language (for singing) could be used.

[Theomore Tullison]

28 crowns?

You have status 8?

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