Story/character discussion

[Reader]

Feel free to get started here on non-mechanical questions.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

As your first player, I was wondering how much warfare would be in play?

[Reader]

Congratulations and welcome back!

There will be Warfare tests, both for some small scale skirmish events and other IC events (that aren't necessarily full battle scale).

- Obviously you can make plans for war against other houses to generate your own warfare checks.
- However, I also have small warfare plans lined up for the houses, in part to test the rules.

[Theomore Tullison]

So first up, I'll be saying this: Are you certain that you:
1. Can attract enough players to have seven active houses?
2. Are able to handle all of that?

If the answer to either is no, I'd consider trimming the number of player houses.

Secondly, the unaffiliated. My impression of these from BITW and SA is that they were, no offense to those who played them intended, waste of space. What I mean is that in both games, there were houses with a lack of PC's, and instead of them not belonging to a house, they could have contributed to the political dynamics and helped achieving house goals. This sort of game is dependent on players interacting to create story, ideally without too much narrator prodding. And refusing unaligneds helps that.

Thirdly, a suggestion for player agency: Personalized story goals. According to the book, one should receive destiny point for reach a story goal. I say make them personal, give every player the option to work out a goal, it should be something that a reasonably active character should manage to achieve with some amount of effort. Something like a 3VP complex intrigue, not something easily done, and since it's a destiny point involved, must be something that is a turning point in that character's life.

[Reader]

1.
A) if we don't get enough for seven houses we'll adjust.
B) based on my posting rate at the last forum game while simultaneously taking place in an even bigger forum game (l5r winter court IV) I think so, particularly as the event format and objectives I'm using will make things easier and more player driven.
- players taking key NPC roles would also help here. Or I can drop the NPC if someone wants a custom character to fulfil a similar roll.

2. Unaffiliated - agree they're a bit remote, so in two minds on this. Also offer interesting recruitment opportunities, so willing to say yes to a few if compelling ideas with a path to house membership.

3. Individual story goals for destiny - 100% yes, ties in to my XP post in the mechanics thread.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

As one of those unaffiliated, I'd go hey, but I joined a House effectively, with the option to more easily leave it. Considering his character goals, it fitted, but not having any unaffiliated for a bit I think would work better.

Judging by BITW, I'd say start with keeping Coldbrook, Marsten, Tullison and Bartheld as the most popular

Dulver and Kytley were the least popular.

and then we have the Ironborn

[Theomore Tullison]

Right, then. Next up on the agenda: The seven houses.

If Marstens are guarding some mountain pass on the border, then sure. I'd keep them for the jockey for Corinne's hand. But truthfully, that has been a bit of a theme in both SA and BITW, so maybe not a big loss if they went out of business. Here I think I would punch up the maester Leopold/Gareth Stone angle much more to freshen in up.

Longshores, I can't see anything definitive on who their liege would be, but I can't see them being sworn to Pyke, on account on being sworn to the Hoare's, which would bring them to Harrenhal, post-conquest, they'd either be sworn to the new lords of Harrenhal or to Riverrun I'd say. And they should definetely not be on good terms with the Mallisters. They are new and fresh, and that's a plus.

Tullisons, to me, their only excuse to be allowed to come this time around is that Dunstan is pretty awesome. But that requires him to be portrayed as such. The rest of them are rather bland, and they lack more things to give them a distinct flavor. Say, more than one faction at play trying to influence the young lord?

Kytleys, I am going to say it: The Kytleys as they stand, might as well be thrown out here and now, there's nothing interesting about them.

Dulvers, dunno, part of me thinks they've underperformed in recent games. A bit too businesslike, not much internal conflict. Iffy on these, very hard to get them right.

Barthelds, Fendrel being made Davain's uncle is a nice touch. The Brom Bartheld exile is as usual a rather sticky subject, I'd throw the part about his leaving pissing off king and country out of the window, and probably kill off Walder somewhere down the line. Actually, let me churn on that a bit and send you a pm.

Coldbrooks, lastly. Make the inheritance struggle matter. Neither Daveth nor Gareth has a particularly strong inherital claim. In fact, Daveth doesn't have any at all, his last name shouldn't even be Coldbrook, but have his father's surname of Oberyn. But if their winterfell lieges is prone to name whoever Lord Tomas asks them to as the new Lord after he dies, then blood, or lack of it, is less of an issue. One could muddle up the palette by swapping out Ser Silas Oberyn with Ser Silas Frey, make Gareth a more sinister character that wants the lordship and tries to play up necklander animosity towards Freys to get it.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

Dulvers were supposed to have more conflict between father and son, but that was being put aside so that there was the ability to achieve anything due to low numbers.

Maybe a house could do with being Targyrean based

[Reader]

Thanks for all the great ideas - we can rationalise the houses once we know our numbers.

Targa then conflict will hopefully be handled by the green v black issues.

Fuller thoughts and responses to both of you later once I'm at a proper computer in a few hours.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

possibly worth defining which way the houses have already chosen if we're not playing the house leaders.

[Reader]

Good point, will add later tonight although there is internal conflict on this in most houses and players don't have to follow the house's policy! Tension is good for drama.

[Reader]

Step by step character creation has a short note on which way each house is leaning politically.

viewtopic.php?f=77&
t=25

Note that this may well change during play due to PC/NC actions - there's at least two houses with a "
scripted"
change unless PCs intervene!

[Baelon Drakeson]

I agree that 7 houses might be too much, but it will depend on how many players we get. One thing I would note is that it is probably best to encourage PC/PC interaction over PC/NC interaction. That's tough for certain types of character stories particularly when the lords are NCs. Having just played a character that spent most of his time bouncing from one NC to another I couldn't help but feel like a drain on Narrator resources (this is the former Symon Kytley, if you couldn't tell).

I was strongly considering an unaligned character for that very reason - much easier to align myself with an involved house than to try to keep a house of one involved. That and I like to make my own characters, but it is hard to have a new character be central to a house's plotting... Symon was only pivotal to the Kytleys because there was no one else. For that matter, Symon being a Kytley was practically a coin-toss decision.

In regard to the virtues of the various houses, I think they all have potentially interesting plots. I just wish they were a bit more outwardly focused. Sure, there are marriages to be arranged and some hints for house-to-house conflict, but I have always thought of them as being set up mostly for internal conflicts. That's fine if your players take over one of the houses (as was apparently intended), but I think it tends to lead AWAY from the sort of house-to-house conflict that I think would be good for this type of game.

[Reader]

Thanks - Longshore are most likely to be cut (but will be kept if they get 3+ sign ups). They're mainly in because we had a great ironborn house in Southron Ambitions and I made this setting just after that.

We can adjust things in various houses to make custom characters more important to the plot. Suggestions on this as part of character submissions are very welcome.

Each house has:
1) Grand objective - generally requiring other players. These are the most likely to involve narrator characters.
2) External player objective - An objective specifically involving players from other houses (allies, trade partners, religious conversion, marriages etc)
3) Internal player objective - An internal squabble to generate tension inside the house. This may involve one PC from a house being appointed to a specific station or resource, or aligning the house behind a particular noble if the house's leadership is in dispute.

Once you see your house goals you'll see that there are steps taken to encourage PC/PC interaction. There will still be NC interaction of course, but I'll use different events if one NC character is an intrigue/interaction bottleneck.

[Dunstan Tullison]

Hello all,
I posted a question in BiTW , will post here as well.
I played Harwyn Storm in BitW, and for this game plan on taking Dunstan Tullison. Would that be alright for everyone?

[Reader]

Hello all,
I posted a question in BiTW , will post here as well.
I played Harwyn Storm in BitW, and for this game plan on taking Dunstan Tullison. Would that be alright for everyone?

It's fine with me! Having players take on a few key characters makes for a richer game (we had a great Corrine Marsten in Southron Ambitions). Custom characters are very welcome too.

[Theomore Tullison]

PC/PC interaction is as much about players creating it as it has to do with house inclinations. From my standpoint, the best of my fellow players in BITW was Erryk, and my judgement criteria being the content he created and his willingness to step and engage in roleplay. The Lord's nephew milling about doing quite a lot of things. You don't need to be the lord, or even close in the family for that. Heck, Marq Mooton in SA didn't have a single blood tie to any home house, and he went about politicking and fraternizing with pretty much every semi-active PC around. And flirting with the maidens, that too. And his rival to most politically active PC didn't either.

It really is as simple as looking at the list of other PC's and see if there is the potential for an RP scene between one of them and yours. It need not have any impact on the overall story, simply a chance to flesh out the character a little bit goes a long way.

That is also a root to my skepticism to so many houses, I'd cut it down to four, maybe five. Ayleth was scraped too thinly since she had to more or less gape over everything for the Barthelds on her own, precious few timeslots left to just have nice chit-chats, and those scenes tended to get cut off or something anyhow. Not even in SA there were enough politically active characters around to keep seven houses going, I have a feeling that four is the most we can manage.

Marstens in SA had Marq, Willem and Corrinne splitting the political lifting between us, leaving plenty time for other pursuits. Ideally, that is what you want with all player houses, and I think seven is too many. However, in BITW, we didn't even have enough politically active characters to make as much as four houses function properly, even if they were concentrated amongst them.

Thing is, each house needs a pair of characters who can do the political heavy lifts, and then a couple of more that helps out when they can. If they don't, one might as well shut it down, because they won't really be houses that way, more like, a few characters doing what they do.

[Reader]

Edit - Longshore may well be for the chop, as noted they're largely a relic from Southron Ambitions having several good Ironborn players.

On the subject of player numbers, feel free to copy my post below on any good forums, noting you're acting on behalf of the narrator!

http://roninarmy.com/threads/1961-New-p ... on-s-Dance

Please find below a link to the play by post forum game I'm looking to start in around a month (Mid April).

Play be post newcomers and veterans alike both welcome.

If you're keen to take part but need a hand in character creation there are pregenerated characters or experienced players can help you.

Questions welcome.

dragonsdance.forumatic.com/index.php

Welcome to Dragon's Dance, a play by post forum for the A Song of Ice and Fire Roleplaying game by Green Ronin. It is set over 170 years before the events of the novels/television series.

The year is 124 After Landing (AL), with tensions running high - King Viserys Targaryen is old and infirm, and followers of the two most powerful women in the Kingdoms have already begun to maneuver themselves for the succession. Queen Alicent, a daughter of House Hightower, has given King Viserys a son and leads the Andal traditionalist faction known as the "
Greens"
. They insist a son of any age should come before a woman.

Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen leads the opposing "
Blacks"
, named for the striking black gown she worn in 111 AL's tourney, in opposition to the green dress down by Queen Alicent. Rhaenyra is the King's oldest surviving child, born from his first marriage to a Arryn noble.

Players have the option of representing one of seven noble houses, with a small number of places open to (currently!) unaligned wanderers, vagabonds and hedge knights.

With tensions high, the opportunities for advancement and disaster are high - will our players serve the traditionalist Greens, take the side of the Blacks and the eldest daughter, strive for peace or for personal gain? Or perhaps, in the game of thrones they are not players at all but simply pieces...

Step by step character creation guide:

[url:3hb03itu]http:
//dragonsdance.
forumatic.
com/viewtopic.
php?f=77&
t=25[/url:3hb03itu]

[Theomore Tullison]

Hello all,
I posted a question in BiTW , will post here as well.
I played Harwyn Storm in BitW, and for this game plan on taking Dunstan Tullison. Would that be alright for everyone?

Dunstan is certainly a challenge.

Main thing with him, I would say, is that he is disinterested in anything that does not involve glory on the field of battle (or tourney). That's going to drive everything he does. The hard part is being a presence at the feast, when he's supposed to woo maidens like the good young knight he is..except that he doesn't. Getting dragged into negotiations and plotting of alliances and deals, when he has no interest in taking part.

I believe you can do the roleplay, but can you portray Dunstan like the naive glory-hound he is while creating content for and with other players?

Now, I am starting to toy with the idea of being Dunstan's uncle, I've done Marsten and Bartheld PC's, so time for someplace else.

[Dunstan Tullison]

Hello all,
I posted a question in BiTW , will post here as well.
I played Harwyn Storm in BitW, and for this game plan on taking Dunstan Tullison. Would that be alright for everyone?

Dunstan is certainly a challenge.

Main thing with him, I would say, is that he is disinterested in anything that does not involve glory on the field of battle (or tourney). That's going to drive everything he does. The hard part is being a presence at the feast, when he's supposed to woo maidens like the good young knight he is..except that he doesn't. Getting dragged into negotiations and plotting of alliances and deals, when he has no interest in taking part.

I believe you can do the roleplay, but can you portray Dunstan like the naive glory-hound he is while creating content for and with other players?

Now, I am starting to toy with the idea of being Dunstan's uncle, I've done Marsten and Bartheld PC's, so time for someplace else.

Yes I have read the Chronicle Starter and feel like I understand his character well enough, and will try to portray him as fatefully as I can.

[Dunstan Tullison]

Main two things why it is important for me to have the Narrators and other players approval to play Dunstan are:

1. English is not my first language, and by playing a Lord longer more complicated posts will probably be required. With Harwyn it was just head smashing, drinking and blind obedience I had in mind. Dunstan, while being Naive and uninterested in intrigue, will be suck into it because of his position and my language skills might or might not affect the quality of posts of that kind.

2. I am fairly new to the game and only played Harwyn and another 2 low born characters, so a lack of experience might influence the quality of my roleplay performance as Dunstan.

I am a very easy going person and if somebody is to say that they would like for Dunstan to continue as NPC if I am not doing the character justice it would not offend or anger me in the slightest, as long as I get to take another character that is:)

[Reader]

Main two things why it is important for me to have the Narrators and other players approval to play Dunstan are:

1. English is not my first language, and by playing a Lord longer more complicated posts will probably be required. With Harwyn it was just head smashing, drinking and blind obedience I had in mind. Dunstan, while being Naive and uninterested in intrigue, will be suck into it because of his position and my language skills might or might not affect the quality of posts of that kind.

2. I am fairly new to the game and only played Harwyn and another 2 low born characters, so a lack of experience might influence the quality of my roleplay performance as Dunstan.

I am a very easy going person and if somebody is to say that they would like for Dunstan to continue as NPC if I am not doing the character justice it would not offend or anger me in the slightest, as long as I get to take another character that is:)

I'm sure the rest of us will help you along - if you make a mistake that Dunstan's Language/Knowledge/Status would have helped me avoid we can adjust it/retcon. English might not be your first language, but your character is a decent speaker, just as I'm probably not a great brawler in real life, but I can still play a character with Fighting 5.

You were a fine Harwyn and I'm sure you'll make a good Dunstan.

[Baelon Drakeson]

PC/PC interaction is as much about players creating it as it has to do with house inclinations. From my standpoint, the best of my fellow players in BITW was Erryk, and my judgement criteria being the content he created and his willingness to step and engage in roleplay. The Lord's nephew milling about doing quite a lot of things. You don't need to be the lord, or even close in the family for that. Heck, Marq Mooton in SA didn't have a single blood tie to any home house, and he went about politicking and fraternizing with pretty much every semi-active PC around. And flirting with the maidens, that too. And his rival to most politically active PC didn't either.

It really is as simple as looking at the list of other PC's and see if there is the potential for an RP scene between one of them and yours. It need not have any impact on the overall story, simply a chance to flesh out the character a little bit goes a long way.

I think it is a catch-22 in some ways. If you are strongly tied to a house, house concerns are going to constrain your activities to some degree, but also give you goals to work towards. If you are not strongly tied to a house, you are more free to get involved anywhere you please. Goals (personal or house) create plot, but the more time you spend pursuing goals the less time you have for general RP and relationship building. Some of it is playstyle, too - some people like goal-oriented play, others prefer more role-driven play. Nothing wrong with either, really.

That is also a root to my skepticism to so many houses, I'd cut it down to four, maybe five. Ayleth was scraped too thinly since she had to more or less gape over everything for the Barthelds on her own, precious few timeslots left to just have nice chit-chats, and those scenes tended to get cut off or something anyhow. Not even in SA there were enough politically active characters around to keep seven houses going, I have a feeling that four is the most we can manage.

Marstens in SA had Marq, Willem and Corrinne splitting the political lifting between us, leaving plenty time for other pursuits. Ideally, that is what you want with all player houses, and I think seven is too many. However, in BITW, we didn't even have enough politically active characters to make as much as four houses function properly, even if they were concentrated amongst them.

Thing is, each house needs a pair of characters who can do the political heavy lifts, and then a couple of more that helps out when they can. If they don't, one might as well shut it down, because they won't really be houses that way, more like, a few characters doing what they do.

I completely agree. I think having more generalist characters would help, and having a better distribution of characters in each House would be good. That would mean either fewer houses, or closing off houses of a certain size until the others catch up (like saying no house can have more than 4 until every house has at least 3)

[Theomore Tullison]

Also a case of distribution. Barnells had plenty of players, it was just that Arden was the only politically minded, and the rest were warrior-types.

But one thing to consider is that you don't need to win intrigues to get VP's or achieve your goals, or at least you shouldn't. Ayleth had the stats to reliably intrigue her way towards her objectives, which perhaps made the choice of method too easy for her. In SA, however, Marq Mooton initiated three intrigues in the whole game, I think, though he was assisting in at least that many. One to befriend Corrie, one to befriend the Braavosi Hite, and one to get into the pants of a female PC. The way he pursued Marsten goals was to be there when he was needed, and the way he pursued his own were to simply be Marq Mooton, start some roleplay, follow wherever the roleplay leads him. It should be noted that as THE GENERALIST in capital letters, the smiling salmon was able to enter almost any event, most of which had the format of: 3xtests against TN9, three different ability+specialty combo, usually something else entirely from other events, gain +1 glory if succeeding at all three, gain additional rewards if you're the best participant. He rarely was the best, but I am quite certain that his total glory tally from these events combined was higher than anyone else's.

My favorite character, ever.

[Jon Cobb]

G'day everyone! I may weigh in on some discussions tomorrow, but for now I'm just dropping in to announce my presence.

/rax (formerly Damon Nettles)

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