Re: Character Creation Workshop

[Nathaniel Mason]

For instance, learning to sing and play an instrument is probably a part of most noblewomen's education, so I would let them use Status for such tests if they wanted to. Alternately, Education or even Language (for singing) could be used.

I don't think a person's position in society (Status) necessarily implies they have any musical talent. If you allow Status as the roll then everyone with high status can play an instrument (noblewoman or not) which would mean the King of Westeros would also be the best musician in Westeros.

Education or Memory really doesn't imply talent either. Knowing the words to a song or story does not mean you can regale others with it. I know all the words to many songs. Trust me, you would not want to hear me sing.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

No, I just misread the starting money part of the character generation rules.

Already fixed it on my sheet.

[Benedict Marsten]

Gwyn - no particular skill attached to an instrument. An appropriate quality makes you truly talented, but I'm happy for anyone to be competent (or worse but enthusiastic!) based simply on their background.

I believe there is a bit in the old GR forums about singing and instrument playing that was quiet good. Can't remember exactly how it went but it was very realistic. Maybe I will use some maester skills to search the archives.

[Reader]

Singing/musician rules up soon (essentially a blend of abilities), then people can suggest changes.

Very interested in alternative suggestions/feedback.

[Theomore Tullison]

Me? I'd let it be up to the player whether or not their character is good at singing/playing instrument.

[Reader]

Me? I'd let it be up to the player whether or not their character is good at singing/playing instrument.

Indeed - as noted, anyone can decide to be competent.

TbH, the contest might to some extent have the flavour text altered to catching the crowd's mood etc.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Me? I'd let it be up to the player whether or not their character is good at singing/playing instrument.

Whether a character sings, dances, or plays and instrument can certainly be up to the player.

How well they sing, dance, or play and instrument would need to be determined by a test.

I can't really just say I am good at singing, any more then I can just say I am good at archery.

[Theomore Tullison]

To that, I will comment that one thing is to write that you're good at singing, dancing or any sort of artistic pursuit on the sheet, that's just flavor.

But the moment you attempt to use it to get what you want, you should have to make a test of the ability/specialization most relevant to what you try to accomplish, typically persuasion I'd imagine.

[Jon Cobb]

For instance, learning to sing and play an instrument is probably a part of most noblewomen's education, so I would let them use Status for such tests if they wanted to. Alternately, Education or even Language (for singing) could be used.

I don't think a person's position in society (Status) necessarily implies they have any musical talent. If you allow Status as the roll then everyone with high status can play an instrument (noblewoman or not) which would mean the King of Westeros would also be the best musician in Westeros.

Education or Memory really doesn't imply talent either. Knowing the words to a song or story does not mean you can regale others with it. I know all the words to many songs. Trust me, you would not want to hear me sing.

Being enormously agile or having great endurance doesn't imply any musical talent either. It can do, but there is no necessary correlation between a high Endurance rank and being a talented bassoon player. Status, Education and Language can, however, all imply being trained in musical skills, which would justify their use as indicators of musical skill (not necessarily native talent - the Artist or Mummer benefits are more appropriate for that).

But really, you've hit upon a basic "
problem"
with the SIFRP system (which is hardly a new one) - each Ability covers a wide range of both inborn talent and training. This makes for a nice and simple character generation and for flexible characters, but it's also a very rough system, where you get to be very good at a wide range of fairly unrelated abilities simply by having a high rank in an Ability. For example, by virtue of having an extraordinarily high Athletics rank, Gregor Clegane is not only the strongest man in Westeros, he's also an amazing runner and an expert climber - all before adding specialization dice to try and highlight his areas of expertise. IRL, being a great weight lifter typically doesn't also make you a great sprinter or long distance runner.

To some, this is a bug, and for others it's a feature. I'm in the latter school. Fortunately, Green Ronin have provided an out for when some skils or activities aren't directly included in an Ability - the rules for Ability substitution and expanded Specialties.

[Baelon Drakeson]

As a performer myself, I can tell you that technical skill is not what impresses a typical audience. I would say that most performance competitions come down to how well the artist gets the audience to like them - pretty straightforwardly Persuasion(charm), just using a medium other than words. Musical skill would be a modifying factor, in the same way that the Language attribute is supposed to be a modifying factor in intrigues... not that they spell that out at all.

Now, if it is a technical competition being judged by other performers, that would be judged based on skill more than on charm. I suspect we won't be having too many competitions like that, though.

Note too that a performance can be used for other intrigue specialties as well. A Lannister humming "
The Rains of Castamere"
could be quite intimidating, and certain dances in history have been noted (and sometimes banned) for being seductive.

[Jon Cobb]

As a performer myself, I can tell you that technical skill is not what impresses a typical audience. I would say that most performance competitions come down to how well the artist gets the audience to like them - pretty straightforwardly Persuasion(charm), just using a medium other than words. Musical skill would be a modifying factor, in the same way that the Language attribute is supposed to be a modifying factor in intrigues... not that they spell that out at all.

Now, if it is a technical competition being judged by other performers, that would be judged based on skill more than on charm. I suspect we won't be having too many competitions like that, though.

Note too that a performance can be used for other intrigue specialties as well. A Lannister humming "
The Rains of Castamere"
could be quite intimidating, and certain dances in history have been noted (and sometimes banned) for being seductive.

Meh, as an ex-performer I would disagree that technical skill isn't part of the package in impressing the typical audience. I strongly doubt that there's any such thing as being able to impress an audience through nothing but "
talent"
or "
stage presence"
. You can have a great voice (talent), but you still need to learn how to make effective use of it (training/technical skill).

I personally find making Persuasion a requirement for all forms of social interaction unnecessarily limiting, which is why I suggested alternate abilities that could be used instead. However, if the intent is to impress an audience, I would certainly agree that the specialization that best represents an the ability to win people over is Charm. So while some people will want to use Persuasion (Charm) for the job, I think it would be prefectly fine to allow someone with lower Persuasion to substitute a different Ability and adding any Charm dice they have to the test.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Meh, as an ex-performer I would disagree that technical skill isn't part of the package in impressing the typical audience. I strongly doubt that there's any such thing as being able to impress an audience through nothing but "
talent"
or "
stage presence"
. You can have a great voice (talent), but you still need to learn how to make effective use of it (training/technical skill).

Sorry, i didn't mean to imply that;
more that beyond a certain minimum skill level stage presence is what will make you popular. It is similar to how beyond a certain minimum language skill charisma is more important for charming with words.

[Baelon Drakeson]

I just realized that Gaerys is compounding a preexisting issue: similarly named characters. It's an issue I've talked about before elsewhere, so I really should have known better.

That is to say that there are now three bastards with similar names:
Garret Snow in House Coldbrook
Gareth Stone in House Marsten
Gaerys Waters in House Marsten (probably)

I came up with his name by combing a known Targaryan name ([url=Gaemon][/url]) and substituting the common Targaryan ending of "
-rys"
for the "
-mon"
, which is of course another common Targaryan name ending.

I don't have any real attachment to the name, so if it would help keep things straight I have no problem changing it.
Thoughts?

[Nathaniel Mason]

I think that is entirely up to you. I didn't even notice. I think it is sufficiently different that there will not be any confusion. In another game I play, there are three characters that have the same first name but different surnames. That certainly does cause problems.

Remember that your Avatar is also going to be substantially different from the others.

[Benedict Marsten]

I second Nathaniel.

[Garret Snow]

I think the only logical solution is for Garret, Gareth, and Gaerys to all take a trip to Braavos and get totally hammered. And maybe get matching tattoos.

G-Unit, maybe?

Seriously though, I doubt there'll be much confusion even if Gareth becomes a PC.

[Reader]

Sadly Gaerys is being renamed (we've come up with an excellent story justification that you'll hopefully enjoy).

G-unit dies before it could even really live.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Indeed, as much as I liked the name 'Gaerys' better, 'Baelon' is so perfectly rich in appropriate history for the character.
I've updated the info on the cast page and included a couple links to A Wiki of Ice and Fire with information relevant to his naming.

[Benedict Marsten]

I think the only logical solution is for Garret, Gareth, and Gaerys to all take a trip to Braavos and get totally hammered. And maybe get matching tattoos.

G-Unit, maybe?

Seriously though, I doubt there'll be much confusion even if Gareth becomes a PC.

You could choose jolly rapper nicknames like O.G. and Ol' Dirty Bastard.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Speaking of names, I just noticed that we have Ser Benjamin Blackthorne, Ser Colin Corbray, and Ser Theomore Tullison.
So we may not have the G-Unit, but we have the Alliterative Knight Trio (sounds like a jazz ensemble to me)

Edit: with special guest star Leifnarr Longshore with a wicked axe solo.

[Benedict Marsten]

Speaking of names, I just noticed that we have Ser Benjamin Blackthorne, Ser Colin Corbray, and Ser Theomore Tullison.
So we may not have the G-Unit, but we have the Alliterative Knight Trio (sounds like a jazz ensemble to me)

Edit: with special guest star Leifnarr Longshore with a wicked axe solo.

Stan Lee would be proud :8-):

[Colin Corbray]

Alliterations ARE a fundamental part of the setting, after all.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Alright, my sheet's done in terms of mechanics, and I will fix up the flavor elements this afternoon.

Right now Gwyn has some background ties with a couple of other PCs. I think the interpretation of events I like best is that Gwyn went to Mountain's Reach to woo Dunstan, stayed for a time, and returned home shortly before the tournament.

The tournament is therefore Round Two, for her ambitions.

This gives me a nice tie-in to existing Tullison PCs and NPCs.

Reader, do you want me to add my sheet into the SEKRET FORUM or shall I just update my PM to you and let you do it?

[Reader]

Thanks Gwyn.

Post characters, backgrounds and your personal quality goal to your private forum please. This applies to everyone to spare my personal mailbox!

[Baelon Drakeson]

Reader - For the personal goals, are you looking for short term, long term, or all of the above?

Everyone else - I'm still looking for a nemesis in another house. If no one is interested, I'll drop the drawback.

Gwyn, we previously talked about Ser Baelon being your escort to/from Tullison lands. I'll let you decide if that was the case or not.
If so, members of House Tullison will know Baelon first hand.

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