Wishes for next chapter

[Theomore Tullison]

Since I am going to head out as soon as my morning cup of tea has been emptied, I am not going to post mine here. But I will when I find the time for it.

But others are very welcome to start the fun.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

A couple of things that come to mind

more individual elements for houses to achieve, though obviously players should input into that

A trip to Kings Landing

And at some point, we need to see a dragon, if only to scare the hell out of the players

[Theomore Tullison]

I have a few.

1. Scaling XP costs, as in 2->
3 costs 10, 3->
4 costs 30, 4->
5 costs 50, for abilities, and 5->
10->
15->
etc for specialties. I envision that this could be brought in with the effect that if someone has more 5's than they ordinarily can afford, they get simply get negative XP, and needs to earn that in before spending more if they don't want to change around.

2. Greater variety of events. And end to "
whoever gets the highest persuasion/deception gets the goods"
basically. Always have three different abilities tested and tally up total DoS across them if there's a glory award involved. Unless you deal with niche-abilities.

3. Make specialties matter in events, say have a courtroom style event where you could have the following example options:
1. Charm, gain improved disposition towards yourself.
2. Bargain, gain bonuses to downtime house fortunes.
3. Incite, reduce disposition towards others.
4. Convince, gain VP towards house objective.
5. Taunt, make some NC do something stupid, but with consequences.
6. Intimidate, duplicate 2, 4 or 5, stronger effect, but with consequences.
7. Seduce, duplicate 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, stronger effect if you go all the way, also with consequences, more so if you go all the way.

Deception allowed as substitute, though a mixed bag, Taunt and seduce will have lighter immediate consequences, but all choices could backfire should people figure out that you were lying/cheating/misleading/bluffing. (As in, using deception probably means the target doesn't realize that you manipulated him, and with seduction, only the most observant people sees the lovebirds stealing away, and thus one avoids the rumors, but bastards, blackmails and heartbroken girls? Not so much. But if you bargain and don't hold your end of the deal? Someone's gonna be angry.)

Basically, move beyond highest persuasion/deception(any) gets glory and produce scaling effects based on DoS in these cases.

4. House objectives, yes. But never put the player houses in direct conflict. Make stuff they have to interact with each other though.

5. A more distinct black and green presence, kinda like the fire and blood mechanic we had in SA, more NC's and such.

6. Cool NC's that does stuff, with pictures, make them start scenes and watch the fun unfold as the PC's starts mucking about in threads.

7. Theomore being the architect of the main plotline.

[Nathaniel Mason]

1. Scaling XP costs, as in 2->
3 costs 10, 3->
4 costs 30, 4->
5 costs 50, for abilities, and 5->
10->
15->
etc for specialties. I envision that this could be brought in with the effect that if someone has more 5's than they ordinarily can afford, they get simply get negative XP, and needs to earn that in before spending more if they don't want to change around.

If this had been done from the beginning, I would be all for this.

Implementing it now, two stories in, would mean complete re-tools of every character.

It would also mean a great deal of work for Reader as he would have to monitor and approve all the re-tools.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

I thought that's how it worked...

[Nathaniel Mason]

I thought that's how it worked...

The standard rules are a flat 30 xp for an ability and a flat 10 xp for specialties. going from 2 to 3 is 10 xp in character creation, but 30 afterwards.

[Yoren longshore]

I've been running at work the entire day (8 to 5- I better get a day off ) but I've come up with a few ideas, sorry if it's badly formulated, but I still have much to do at work, so a beief post is all I can do for now:
1)Stepstones: king Viserys is aware of the issues of the realm, and fears an invasion of westeros after he's kicked the bucket. Therefore he wishes to send some houses (the same that dealt with the Bracken/Blackwood crisis) to secure the stepstones. Possibly under command of Baelon due to dragonsblood and all of that.
2) Manderly invasion. The sisters threaten Manderly in any upcoming conflict. They've taken all three isles to protect themselves, again PCs will have to mediate peace.
3) kings landing, Viserys needs protectiob.
4) KL viserys is dead, great counsil.
5) Lannisport huge embezzlement of money from the throne, is the mines drying out and profit stagnating, or are they embezzling?
6 Dorne. Viserys wishes to be remembered for the future as the man who conquered dorne. The PCs will help him to do it. Either through marriage or through war. Viserys wishes to have Dorne either through blood or through blood.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

Dorne - Sending Ser Jorah to Dorne is more likely to start a war

[Samurel Manderly]

My single contribution based on my little time here:

More opportunities to be a sneaky, Kill-y bastard.

All I want, is to slit someones throat and say "
The Marstens/Manderlys send their regards"
is that too much to ask?!

[Ser Jorah Holt]

give it time, I'm sure we can find you some opportunities

[Theomore Tullison]

My single contribution based on my little time here:

More opportunities to be a sneaky, Kill-y bastard.

All I want, is to slit someones throat and say "
The Marstens/Manderlys send their regards"
is that too much to ask?!

Well, I dare say that my cohort has done plenty of that, so there's opportunities if one decides to create them. Not quite yet slitting throats though. But sneakyness and bastardry in general is something that relies on player creativity.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Sam.

Sam Sam Sam.

You're working for the wrong Lady.

(^_-)

[Yoren longshore]

Dorne - Sending Ser Jorah to Dorne is more likely to start a war

I think the war is coming either way;
)
Bastardry is like liqour, great in the right amounts!

[Theomore Tullison]

Sam.

Sam Sam Sam.

You're working for the wrong Lady.

(^_-)

Yeah. Go sign up with Theo

[Samurel Manderly]

My single contribution based on my little time here:

More opportunities to be a sneaky, Kill-y bastard.

All I want, is to slit someones throat and say "
The Marstens/Manderlys send their regards"
is that too much to ask?!

Well, I dare say that my cohort has done plenty of that, so there's opportunities if one decides to create them. Not quite yet slitting throats though. But sneakyness and bastardry in general is something that relies on player creativity.

Who says I'm not already doing as such?

Sam.

Sam Sam Sam.

You're working for the wrong Lady.

(^_-)

Or the right one depending xD

[Theomore Tullison]

All I am saying is that I wouldn't expect reader to make opportunities for sneaky-sneaky-stabby-stabby so much as to simply be accommodating to creative ideas to indulge in it. In my experience, he is plenty accommodating, just bring your ideas.

[Samurel Manderly]

All fair and good

[Baelon Drakeson]

This has ended up being a VERY long post, so I've split it into sections. Feel free to skip what you aren't interested in. :;
):
First, my own thoughts. Second, Theo and Yoren had some complicated good (and bad) suggestions, so I have responses to them, as well. Other people's suggestions were less in depth or complication, not in quality, so don't feel offended that I didn't respond to you!
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My thoughts:

Don't make the players responsible for policing tother players. Wrongdoers should have competent NCs hunting them down, and Rightdoers should have competent NC villains to go after. The latter is definitely in place already, but the former is lacking, meaning that there is either high-stakes direct PC conflict (such as the Mine debacle) or the wrongdoers just get away with it because some players don't want to engage in such high-stakes direct PC conflicts. Neither is good.

In general, less hidden information regarding the main plotline(s). I suspect that some players are less engaged because they don't know what's going on behind the scenes, yet at the same time because there are significant (and often justified) trust issues, those of us with information and suspicions are disinclined to be overly sharing - it could seriously come back to haunt us if the person we share with then shares with a person they trust be we don't. Mystery, when well done (like this) is awesome - but either on a smaller scale or less direct personal stakes.

As a follow-up, sneaky-sneak stuff should be done publicly, so we can all enjoy the evolving storyline. Significant plot scenes should not be played out in private forums or via PMs - we should be trusted to keep IC and OOC knowledge separate and slapped down (IC) if we don't. Secrets should be kept from characters, not from players - player trust is essential, character trust not so much.

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1. Scaling XP costs, as in 2->
3 costs 10, 3->
4 costs 30, 4->
5 costs 50, for abilities, and 5->
10->
15->
etc for specialties. I envision that this could be brought in with the effect that if someone has more 5's than they ordinarily can afford, they get simply get negative XP, and needs to earn that in before spending more if they don't want to change around.

I'm with Nathan on this - from the beginning, fine, but implementing it now... it could be done, but it could be a real headache. In general I like it, and if Reader and a vast majority of other players agree, I say go for it...

Though I would say that anyone whose current build is above XP should get -1D/-1(or 2?) on attributes/specialties currently over a revised build (per point over) - kind of like having Status above your max status. That gives some flexibility in how to adapt to the new scheme without totally eliminating the benefit of having already improved an attribute/specialty - basically let people have a middle-ground until they have 'paid off' the balance. Also, reward specialties/xp (like the hunting specialty awarded in the bracken hunt) should not be counted as costing XP, as they were awarded separately from normal character creation/advancement.

2. Greater variety of events. And end to "
whoever gets the highest persuasion/deception gets the goods"
basically. Always have three different abilities tested and tally up total DoS across them if there's a glory award involved. Unless you deal with niche-abilities.

3. Make specialties matter in events, <
snip>

I think that reader has already done quite a bit in the direction of these two points, and that should be recognized - the varying abilities in the investigations and on the Peacemakers event, for instance. The problem with the 'test three and sum' model is that it rewards generalists, and not everyone wants to play generalists. Having some of that and some single-attribute stuff (like the hunt) rewards both styles of character.

4. House objectives, yes. But never put the player houses in direct conflict. Make stuff they have to interact with each other though.

I think there is room for direct competition, but:
1) Direct violence should be limited to official objectives only, and potentially costly (two houses want to claim a prize, so they both send troops).
2) Violating 1 should come at VERY high cost - like losing VP, Influence, wealth-scale fines, imprisonment/maiming of offenders, etc.
3) There should never be a first-come-first serve situation - multiple opportunities for VP/prizes to change hands.
4) Competitive objectives should not be 'winner takes all' - there should be a value to the VP/sub-objectives independently of the overall objective, and the losing house should not be penalized for failing to achieve the objective.

5. A more distinct black and green presence, kinda like the fire and blood mechanic we had in SA, more NC's and such.

I can't speak to the SA mechanic (not having been in that game), but I think there is enough green/black tension going on already.
Betrayals, spies &
double-agents, assassinations and terrorist plots... yeah, I think we're good.
I did like some of the green/black stuff that went on with events in Story 1 - earn points for one side or the other with some effects on a national as well as local/mechanical scale.

6. Cool NC's that does stuff, with pictures, make them start scenes and watch the fun unfold as the PC's starts mucking about in threads.

Would be very cool, but also a LOT of work for an already busy Reader.

7. Theomore being the architect of the main plotline.

You are enough of an architect of this plotline as it is.

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I've been running at work the entire day (8 to 5- I better get a day off ) but I've come up with a few ideas, sorry if it's badly formulated, but I still have much to do at work, so a beief post is all I can do for now:
1)Stepstones: king Viserys is aware of the issues of the realm, and fears an invasion of westeros after he's kicked the bucket. Therefore he wishes to send some houses (the same that dealt with the Bracken/Blackwood crisis) to secure the stepstones. Possibly under command of Baelon due to dragonsblood and all of that.
2) Manderly invasion. The sisters threaten Manderly in any upcoming conflict. They've taken all three isles to protect themselves, again PCs will have to mediate peace.
3) kings landing, Viserys needs protectiob.
4) KL viserys is dead, great counsil.
5) Lannisport huge embezzlement of money from the throne, is the mines drying out and profit stagnating, or are they embezzling?
6 Dorne. Viserys wishes to be remembered for the future as the man who conquered dorne. The PCs will help him to do it. Either through marriage or through war. Viserys wishes to have Dorne either through blood or through blood.

2 is probably about the right scale, would be a lot like this Story, though less investigation/legal judgement and more peacekeeping/treaty negotiating.

3, 4, &
5 are simply too big for our houses - we would be lost in the power-plays of the REALLY big fish (lords paramount, royal family, small council, etc.)

1 &
6 are quite interesting ideas, but again too big for us - if there were internal strife in the Triarchy/Dorne such that we could be tasked with winning over/capturing various smaller pieces as part of a larger campaign, that could work.

We might end up with a major split between those in the field fighting battles and those elsewhere being diplomatic - that could be interesting as well, as the outcome of objectives in one would have interesting effects in the other (scoring an alliance provides extra troops, winning a battle gives an edge in negotiations... etc.)

This could also make for an interesting ongoing storyline rather than a single big event with months off in-between - forces choices about who stays to manage the house/be diplomatic on a local scale vs. who goes to war or goes to King's Landing or foreign courts as a diplomat... lots of interesting options, would feel a bit more like the books, too - lots of people in various areas with local goals that affect larger events in various ways. I would say that instead of doing things on the day/timeslot scale though maybe do an entire month in 1-2 weeks - Could get some interesting "
letters from the front"
kind of RP as well, between the various groups.

[Samurel Manderly]

The multiple characters from a house in multiple locations aspect would feel more in line with the books, and I suspect would be quite fun, the only down side would be to the houses who only have 1 or 2 people. Otherwise, it would mean more specialized characters interacting with others of their craft.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Well, in that sort of scenario I wouldn't expect us to all split on house lines as much as we have for this and the last story - more collaborative, like the way the peacekeepers battles were.
we could solve some of the commander limitations by running battles with multiple forces - one commander attacks the front gate of a castle while another takes on the south wall... two allied forces on the same battlefield, operating independently - and perhaps a third force that had lured away some of the enemy forces and another that is blockading a pass so reinforcements can't flank the castle assault... with extra troops earned for us by the diplomatic forces elsewhere.

[Athelstan]

Furthermore the advantages of Houses with more than one or two players is the amounts of Glory and other benefits they get, but other than that, there is no real way to help those Houses with fewer members as they don't have enough or are not generalist and can't participate in everything, while Houses with 3 or more players have at least dedicated players to certain aspects and can participate in multiple instances and get greater benefits, while Houses with less players have to contend also with the greater number House for the same rewards with less chances of winning just by amount of players, and the whim of orokos!

I can see a Stepstones campaign as we free a certain area with some naval warfare and sieges. Kind of like a zoom in to a certain area were the Houses victories defeats affect each other.

Let's say House Tullison fails the siege, which makes an increase of troops on the scenario were the Marstens and Dulver are involved suddenly end up with extra enemies do to that failure, little things that do ripple effect into others.

Another scenario could be the Longshores engage in naval combat to prevent aid come to the siege the Tullisons were involved, which makes it easier for them and thus success, which makes it so the Marsten+Dulver do not have to face an extra unit or two in their combat.

[Yoren longshore]

Maybe characters that become uninvolved due to a particular scenario can create A secondary character to deal with it?
I don't like the scaling XP as we'd all be above the limit. Even Yoren, who's the most generalised character would be 20 xp above the limit, we can't change creation halfway through...

[Athelstan]

Perhaps a Soft cap to abilities like no ability above 5 until other abilities are at least 3?

It would be complicated I assume, but then again perhaps someone can think of a good way to do that if that's what most players and Reader want.

[Nathaniel Mason]

I know there are people running around with 5s in some abilities, but I don't think there is any PCs with a 6. (There are a couple NPCs I believe.)

You could put an XP premium on buying level 6 and 7. That would accomplish what I think the goal is without affecting any existing characters.

[Theomore Tullison]

I believe there's a cap at 5.

But the thing with leaving it as it is being that it pretty much demands anyone that wants to be good at intrigue to invest in persuasion 5, and events that reward those that do drives it further in the same direction. All it takes is one PC taking his/her dice pools down that road and the rest needs to follow, or not engage in intrigue.

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