Re: Wishes for next chapter

[Samurel Manderly]

Well isn't that quite the same as saying "
Those who want to be go in combat should have fighting 5"
?

[Athelstan]

No, not really Persuasion 5 is much more powerful in Intrigue combat than Fighting will ever have.

Fighting 5 still needs a high agility or athletics to do something, Persuasion depends on itself to do damage.

[Samurel Manderly]

I guess it depends on what technique you use, wouldn't a good house rule be that damage is based entirely on will? for all techniques? or would that be too simplified and too broken (can't tell, just a thought)

[Septon Arlyn]

The same could be said for fighting 5 though. The only difference is that PC's are much more likely to engage in intrigue's together then to try fighting (bar in an arena sort of completion.) Also those with persuasion sort of stats are more likely to be able to avoid conflict.

What I think might be interesting is to have a random encounters sort of chart, and every time you move from scene to scene you roll (in your private form) to see if some thing happens based on the chart in the almanac. For most rolls, nothing happens, however if you roll on the almanac and get a (pass rumour clue, bandits attack, an NPC engages you on an intrigue, ect. ) then you move that roll to the regular form and proceed to investigation/ combat ect. Then reader could pm the extra clues or rumors based on rolls and how successful you are in the random encounter

[Yoren longshore]

No, not really Persuasion 5 is much more powerful in Intrigue combat than Fighting will ever have.

Fighting 5 still needs a high agility or athletics to do something, Persuasion depends on itself to do damage.

But combat has a lot higher potency. Due to DR there is a lot bigger scaling of skills in combat. I'm no slouch at intrigue, although characters like Corrine or Baelon would crush me, but if I enlisted the help of even a bad conversationalist we would have a chance. While a bad combatant does next to nothing. I don't think Daveth is even able to harm me...

[Athelstan]

What I think might be interesting is to have a random encounters sort of chart, and every time you move from scene to scene you roll (in your private form) to see if some thing happens based on the chart in the almanac. For most rolls, nothing happens, however if you roll on the almanac and get a (pass rumour clue, bandits attack, an NPC engages you on an intrigue, ect. ) then you move that roll to the regular form and proceed to investigation/ combat ect. Then reader could pm the extra clues or rumors based on rolls and how successful you are in the random encounter

This could be interesting, except intrigues and random NPC's could/might be more work for reader than random bandit encounters that can be made by other players.

[Nathaniel Mason]

The fact that much of this game hinges on Fighting or Persuasion is a reality that people who play this just have to live with.

An Intriguer with a 5 will likely crush most of those of lesser skill. A warrior with a 5 Fighting can pull out his blade and chop the Intriguer to hamburger. I can't see changing the XP curve changing that dynamic one iota.

I don't think, up till now, there have been a lack of either Combat or Intrigue events, and there have been numerous events that focus on lesser used skills like Knowledge, Cunning, and Stealth. I think Reader has done a very good job in that up till now, to be frank.

I can't speak for others, but I certainly have never taken the stats of others into account when I was spending XP.

[Theomore Tullison]

It is technique dependent, yes. But combat defense+AR compared to damage tends to be considerably more balanced than intrigue defense+DR compared to influence.

With Persuasion 5, you're typically seeing frustration within 2 rounds. With combat, injury at most (unless you're bringing war lances or other things approaching 10 damage per DoS to the party.) And injury is a much lesser deal than frustration. The part where it sticks with you for a day not included.

[Samurel Manderly]

The fact that much of this game hinges on Fighting or Persuasion is a reality that people who play this just have to live with.

An Intriguer with a 5 will likely crush most of those of lesser skill. A warrior with a 5 Fighting can pull out his blade and chop the Intriguer to hamburger. I can't see changing the XP curve changing that dynamic one iota.

I don't think, up till now, there have been a lack of either Combat or Intrigue events, and there have been numerous events that focus on lesser used skills like Knowledge, Cunning, and Stealth. I think Reader has done a very good job in that up till now, to be frank.

I can't speak for others, but I certainly have never taken the stats of others into account when I was spending XP.

Likewise, I will easily say I do not have a single skill at 5 at this point, nor do I have a single Bonus dice that is more then one, I'm a very generalized character with plenty of room to expand in lots of places (except war, never going near that with this character. like a bird underground, a worm in the sky, a cat in space etc. etc.)

with that said, I feel confident in being able to hold my own in all the fields I've placed points in. ish.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I'll have a think about this.

[Septon Arlyn]

anyways, random chart I just thought up


based on 2d6

2) a high level intriguer initiates an intrigue with you (blackwood/bracken) to convince you to view their position more favorably.
3) A scene with a clue (awareness to notice TN 12) success unlocks a rumor of readers choice
4) a athletics/stealth/agility check to discover a clue (total DOS / 3 matter)
5)nothing happens
6)nothing happens
7) nothing happens
8)nothing happens
9)nothing happens
10)a warfare/knowledge/healing check to discover a clue (total DOS / 3 matter)
11) a minor combat scene (3 foot pad/ 2 woodsman/ 1 guard) + persuasion (intimidate) TN 9 for a rumor
12) knight of quality challenges a duel for a clue

you would roll a 2d6 for each time you move from a location to a different location (so 9ish per day) and for each time you roll on this chart if you get something on this you would post either role-play and PM reader for results for non NPCs events. Then reader would place to stats that we would use and we would run it like the NPC combats from the peacekeepers event, other other PC's running the NPCs.

just my thoughts

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

I have Persuasion 4...am I bad at Intrigue?

I'm sort of half asking, half trying to make a point. I haven't gotten the sense so far that I'm bad at intrigues, though clearly Persuasion 5 would help. That's the point. Simultaneously, I've seen the opinion (anyone wanting to be good at intrigue needs Persuasion 5) often enough that I'm honestly curious. Is that really something I have to start burying my acorns for if I want to move the intrigue needle?

[Samurel Manderly]

I honestly don't think so, one intrigue vs a strong opponent can be replaced with several weaker intrigue. 4 persuasion with bonus dice is actually really fantastic

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I think 3 is human average, so 4 is talented, though not an expert. Like, 4 is talented amateur, where 5 is like Olympian.

[Samurel Manderly]

2 is human average though >
_>

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Oh ok. My mistake. So Gwyn is good at Persuasion. Just not as good as her cousin. :;
):

[Theomore Tullison]

The claim that 30XP into persuasion would give you more oomph as 60XP into will, status or awareness for a social character isn't very far off the mark, I think.

The builds of Corrine and Arlyn probably makes Gwyn merely capable at intrigue as far as comparisons go. But as said elsewhere, this is not problematic in and of itself as long as we know that there are different levels of optimization involved, some players buys will, status or awareness because they want to, even if persuasion is stronger.

[Baelon Drakeson]

A "
glass cannon"
build focused only on offense will easily fall prey to a somewhat weaker persuader with better initiative. That was intentionally part of Baelon's initial build, to compensate for the power of Famous - and indeed, he lost some important early intrigues.

[Theomore Tullison]

Baelon doesn't do 5 influence per DoS with charm, though. 3 DoS with that puts a will 3 character into frustration in one go, and that's roughly a 50%+ chance of happening in the first round. Someone with 4's in everything will generally be able to bring down someone with persuasion 5 and 3 in the rest, but that's 90XP of extra investment.

[Kevan Lyras]

Event design: Event design have become more sophisticated in story 2 and that is a good thing. I specially like the variety of effects (extra tests for superior clue, awareness to check others wrong doing etc.) This is a lot more fun than just "
best roll gets +1 glory"
.
Overall, I'd also agree with Theomore, combined rolls over 2 or 3 abilities are better than just "
best persuasion roll wins"
.
One last point: Events should not be free glory points to some participants and there should be more risk involved into participating in an event. There should be more consequences for failure and for the tests with a particularly great reward (lets say the +10xp for a bonus dice) there could also be a negative consequence for the person with the lowest roll or similar. (So that even the PCs that are well skilled in the necessary skills have a chance to fail)

House objectives: As already mentioned in another thread, I really liked all the story hooks, the smaller objectives in story 1 provided. Please bring them back :;
):

Global mechanics: (i.e. Black vs Green scores, Peace and War scores): These are great. If there comes change to this at all, then make them more prominent in their effects. (Theomore, I have not played BiTW and I cannot find the relevant infos, how did these mechanics you mentioned work?)

Story design:
Yes, Story 2 is a lot more driven by house politics, but that is the result of the game's success. This is the third game in the current form and all of them started with a Tourney. They are easy as a first story, everbody has something to do, even though not a lot of background exists for all the players. Now, we have quite a lot of background and history between the players and the NPCs and it would be a shame if that was not built upon.

[Reader]

A couple of things that come to mind

more individual elements for houses to achieve, though obviously players should input into that

A trip to Kings Landing

And at some point, we need to see a dragon, if only to scare the hell out of the players

Wow, thanks everyone for putting together this thread, only looked at first and last pages so will review fully and add thoughts.

Just wanted to comment on the above:

- KIng's Landing: mandatory for flavour and coming up in the offseason as a taster at the very least. Investiture of new kingsguard!
- Dragon: you guys know the royal guest list now! How do you think Aemond arrives?

[Yoren longshore]

dragons. Being a firepriest I might have to talk to one...
Is there any dragon-stats? How much cunning does one have? Is it persuasion or animal handling to talk to one?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I too would like to have House objectives, and reduce the PvP that has flared up. More chances to be awesome and collaborate to achieve stuff.

A trip to King's Landing would be cool. I must say, I'm slightly worried that the guy who detests Corrine &
Ben is turning up with a killing machine :;
): . I am inclined to try and make peace there, but I also think Aemond is a bit of an arse anyway.

I wouldn't want to do away with the House politics entirely, but I'm personally not great at it. It's somewhat handy from an rp perspective to have a character with similar political blind spots and inexperience.

[Samurel Manderly]

Personally, I'd really like to see war come, I want to see the houses divided, and I want to see the cool RP opportunities a divisive war like that could bring.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Personally, I'd really like to see war come, I want to see the houses divided, and I want to see the cool RP opportunities a divisive war like that could bring.

I'm pretty sure that's on the agenda for chapter 3.

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