Re: Mechanical discussion

[Reader]

Hm, that did not even occur to me... but definitely a fair point. I will check the rules whether there is something in it about it.

In this case, the archers aren't directly engaged with the cavalry yet and I can't see anything in the rulebook preventing it. Once you've been attacked you'll generally need to switch to melee unless you attackers move away/are slain/you break contact.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Fair enough. "
Not directly engaged"
... I'll have to fix that.
There also seems to be a bit of a blank spot in the rules in regards to prohibiting 0-range charges, much like in the melee rules...
Short deadlines, insufficient playtesting, and a general lack of care, probably.

[Reader]

Fair enough. "
Not directly engaged"
... I'll have to fix that.
There also seems to be a bit of a blank spot in the rules in regards to prohibiting 0-range charges, much like in the melee rules...
Short deadlines, insufficient playtesting, and a general lack of care, probably.

Indeed, but not insurmountable.

0-range charges in either scale probably aren't getting past the narrator.

However, warfare scale is large enough for adjacent units to shoot if they're not under direct attack, at least as an initial ruling.

As you note, you can correct this.

A tense battle, with the fate of the Targaryen siege engines hanging in the balance...

[Baelon Drakeson]

As you note, you can correct this.

Oh, I did... (Sorry Marstens... it's only fair to play the Dornish as trying to win. It's kind of like the reverse of the Clan War - they are just defending their home against invaders, yeh?)

A tense battle, with the fate of the Targaryen siege engines hanging in the balance...

Indeed! Things are looking bad for the northerners, but it's not over yet...

[Ereth Redwain]

Should have accepted my cavalry maybe a PC as sub commander, now poor Ereth might have to use his siege toys...

[Reader]

Should have accepted my cavalry maybe a PC as sub commander, now poor Ereth might have to use his siege toys...

You brought engineers but no siege engines according to the seven against Wyl thread (at least they won't be torched).

[Theomore Tullison]

I believe he was under the impression that they'd be coming along according to pm exchanges from way back. But if Elite means what I think it does in terms of stats, the plan should hold.

[Yoren longshore]

Well engineers are not any use without their siege weapons...

[Theomore Tullison]

They can bring down the walls if they somehow manages to get across the field.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

basically, if you can get rid of the engineers and the archers, then you can move across safely

[Ereth Redwain]

I would tunnel under the walls with the engineers, to bad there is no rules for that lol.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

well, there are lots of tunnels already. perhaps we just need to win my battle and use those to enter the castle?

[Ereth Redwain]

Tunnels are for collapsing the walls, as much as they are for entering the castle. All battle are crucial to make our effort easier or harder.

Good luck Ser Jorah, my engineers depend on your success!

[Theomore Tullison]

I don't think those tunnels reach as far as the castle itself? Engineers can act as sappers though, but unless they dig a tunnel 500 yards long to do it...

Still we should at least have 3 wealth worth of siege toys, even if Kevan turns out to be a shining example of why you shouldn't let Valemen be in charge of anything :;
):

3 Wealth worth of siege toys and a dragon should suffice for our needs.

[Reader]

I believe he was under the impression that they'd be coming along according to pm exchanges from way back. But if Elite means what I think it does in terms of stats, the plan should hold.

Under the impression doesn't pay the bills sadly.

Nothing posted to the troop thread = nothing present now, sorry guys.

[Theomore Tullison]

Reviewing Boneway Plains battle, shouldn't AP count on the agility test for defense order?

[Reader]

Reviewing Boneway Plains battle, shouldn't AP count on the agility test for defense order?

Ooh, good point but also probably alters what people would have done.

Play things as they lie or rewind? How do those directly involved feel? I'm home tonight if people need to crunch things quickly.

[Kevan Lyras]

Hm, that would make a huge difference. That would mean both CDs are 3 lower, which means my readied action would have disorganized the commander unit, which is what I tried to achieve with the DP.
With the second attack of the GA I could have routed the commander unit effectively ending the battle with no casualties...

The Golden Arrows raise their bows as the enemy comes into range and lets loose a volley of arrows on the attacking commander and his men, but they cannot break the veteran's attack. It is their colleagues in front of them that have to endure the impact of 40 heavy armed riders crashing in on them. The attack is brutal and without Kevan screaming orders and fighting side by side with his men, they would have probably loosened their lines. But the Red Swords stand their ground and do not retreat one step. This gives the Golden Arrows the chance to let another swarm of arrows fly, this time aimed at the other cavalry.

Actions:
Leader of men: Organize Red Swords
[url=GA readied attack][/url]: 5d6 21
[url=Spend DP for bonus dice on readied attack (need 5 or 6 for 3DoS)][/url]: 1d6 1 ... ah, would have been too easy to end this so quickly
..>
vs 13= 2 DoS*6=12-5AR ->
Walter's men at 5/12

[url=R2O3 - Golden Arrows][/url]: 5d6k4 17
[url=GA attack Baldrick's cavalry][/url]: 5d6 12: 2DoS ->
Baldrick's men at 5/12

Kevan: 8/12
Red Swords: 12/12, Disorganized 1
Golden Arrows: 6/6
Walter's men: 5/12
Baldrick's men: 5/12

Ah, orokos is not with me today

BTW: I am back from the mountains and will address all the PMs soon

[Baelon Drakeson]

Reviewing Boneway Plains battle, shouldn't AP count on the agility test for defense order?

Ooh, good point but also probably alters what people would have done.

Play things as they lie or rewind? How do those directly involved feel? I'm home tonight if people need to crunch things quickly.

it would not have significantly changed what I would have done, and no change in Kevan's actions would have made a difference.

Here's how it would have played out:

GA readied attack vs Vet Cavalry
21 vs CD 10, 3 DoS;
18 - 5AR = 13 Dam [Disorganized]

Veteran charge [-1D from disorganized]
14 vs CD 9, 2 DoS;
20 - 6AR = 12 Dam [Disorganized, 3 total damage to Kevan] (note, if Kevan had not defended, the result would have been the same)

Kevan uses Leader of Men? (if it can be used at any time - it's not an order, but can it interrupt readied actions? Moot point in this case, but something to think about.)

We never did determine whether a triggered action happens before or after the triggering action.

If the triggering attack happens first:
Trained Charge:
19 vs CD 7, 3 DoS;
30 - 6AR = 24 Dam [Destroyed, 11 total damage to Kevan, takes an injury to avoid defeat]
the readied attack doesn't occur

If the triggering attack happens first, the best case scenario would still only be disorganized. With that penalty, the charge would have been
17 vs CD 7, 3 DoS;
30 - 6AR = 24 Dam [Destroyed, 11 total damage to Kevan, takes an injury to avoid defeat]
In other words, the same result.


Golden Arrows weaken(as occurred) or rout the Trained Cavalry or rout the Vet Cavalry (who would flee sprint distance, but that's not enough to take them off the map). Either way, the remaining cavalry would attack and destroy the Golden Arrows, as happened - and Ser Walter wins.

[Theomore Tullison]

What that consideration fails to take into account is the DP which Kevan spent that could not possibly alter the archer's DoS if their defense is 10, applied on the second cavalry charge in conjunction with leader of men, the Red Swords would be disorganized, while the golden arrows would then Route the enemy commander out of the battlefield with a 1 DoS hit, which would be a rather no-brainer move.

What follows is a bit more murky, but my interpretation is that the other Wyl cavalry unit is disorganized as per p. 177, and then their Champion would need to take command in the player phase, but before that happens...sitting ducks for another 1 DoS strike sending unit 2 routed as well.

That doesn't really change if the Red Swords are destroyed on the second charge either, assuming an injured Kevan makes his command test to the archers.

[Baelon Drakeson]

What that consideration fails to take into account is the DP which Kevan spent that could not possibly alter the archer's DoS if their defense is 10, applied on the second cavalry charge in conjunction with leader of men, the Red Swords would be disorganized, while the golden arrows would then Route the enemy commander out of the battlefield with a 1 DoS hit, which would be a rather no-brainer move.

Assuming Leader of Men can be used mid-action like that.
Assuming (incorrectly) that the cavalry routing takes them off the map that round (they would move their sprint speed, and would not clear the map until the Standing Orders phase of the next round).
Assuming that the Leader would have to follow the routing unit of the map - which would mean instead of destroying the Golden Archers, I rout the Red Swords, sending Kevan off the map (because they ARE close enough to flee off the map in one sprint action).

I agree though, Kevan should get that DP back.

[Reader]

Also complicated by whether or not Ser Kevan wants to use his DP to reduce opposing DoS on their attacks, if that makes a significant difference to their rolls?

Let's see where we end up after his decisions.

[Theomore Tullison]

The routed unit sprints away from the attacker, which would be North-East, no?

[Kevan Lyras]

This is getting more complicated everytime we have an additional discussion

Here is where I stand so far, happy for somebody to comment / check assumptions:

1) Readied attack disorganizes Cavalry w/commander
2) Commander cavalry disorganizes Red Swords
3) Leader of men reorganizes Red Swords
4) Cavalry 2 attacks Red Swords: 19 [5d6k4=[6, 6, 5, 2], 1 ->
spend DP  2 DoS ->
Disorganized again
5) Golden Arrows rout Cavalry w/commander
6) Cavalry with commander flees the battlefield (if the flee straight away from the attacking Golden Arrows the would flee diagonally out of the battlefield ending in right here / if they would flee more descriptive back to the castle they would need another round to get out of the map
7) Wyl’s turn. They can:
a) Rally the commander cavalry
b) Attack the Golden Arrows as they did originally:
c) Attack the disorganized Red Swords ->
Red Swords are routed

So even with the spent DP I would be defeated, correct?

[Kevan Lyras]

If 6) is interpreted in a way that the cavalry flees directly diagonally off the map we could end in a situation where both commanders are routed and off map...

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