Re: Game Discussion

[Theomore Tullison]

Crossbowmen on horses were a thing in RL, used by Italians, Germans and Scandinavians among others. And an "archer" unit in this game is simply a unit with long range weapons, doesn't distinguish between bows and crossbows.

But yeah, cavalry gets you 100XP of endurance/athletics, along with good damage, discipline, armor and movement. For 5 power, it's really nice. Basically removes their general vulnerability.

[Ereth Redwain]

Your bloodriders are expensive because they are: Personal guard 6 power + cavalry 5 power + archers 3 power + Training level you started them with + wealth worth of upgrades.

Players with cavalry archers get a lot of millage for what I have seen in this game, and I'm not saying they are being bad, just not very fluffy for Westeros, but mechanics do allow for a superb group of 20 men that can potentially rout normal 100 men units in a single turn.

Oddly enough there isn't a crossbow unit in the game, which I think we could probably come up with.

Also regarding mercenaries, there should be a bit more variety and not just infantry, but perhaps some cavalry option?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

lol...you'll always be Corrine to her.

It was more Gwyn putting him in his place I was praising, though it seems to have gone over his head completely.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Your bloodriders are expensive because they are: Personal guard 6 power + cavalry 5 power + archers 3 power + Training level you started them with + wealth worth of upgrades.

True that adds to it, they were 17 power at the outset, and have gotten stronger since. However, only about a third of that was from personal guard. Archers of equal offensive power would be only a fraction of the cost, though - slightly less than half as much.

Players with cavalry archers get a lot of millage for what I have seen in this game, and I'm not saying they are being bad, just not very fluffy for Westeros, but mechanics do allow for a superb group of 20 men that can potentially rout normal 100 men units in a single turn.

I'll agree that they are not very traditional, but that fits House Drakeson. Both characters have ties to Essos, and a certain amount of Essosi influence has been present since Story 1... our costumes at the Bartheld masquerade, for instance (a khaleesi and a white lion). Horse archery is hardly unknown... but certainly it might offend the more tradition-bound of Westerosi war leaders. Archers are mostly smallfolk, and smallfolk can't be allowed to be the backbone of an army, no no no, that would challenge the place of knights in society, and we can't have that!

Oddly enough there isn't a crossbow unit in the game, which I think we could probably come up with.

Specific weapon usage is abstracted in warfare units, so it would just be an Archer unit.

Also regarding mercenaries, there should be a bit more variety and not just infantry, but perhaps some cavalry option?

Agreed, realy, the whole Mercenary unit as presented in the books is pretty strange. As reader pointed out though, we've circumvented this by dealing with mercenary negotiations on the PC level rather than the House level.

It was more Gwyn putting him in his place I was praising, though it seems to have gone over his head completely.

I'm hoping Gwyn will bust an intrigue on his head to convince him that women secretly rule the country, Princess Rhaenyra just wants to bring the truth to light, and the Greens are a cabal led by the Queen trying to keep the matriarchy secret.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Hahahaha

That might be entertaining. But I don't want to capriciously punish PCs for interacting with Gwyn, ya know? Otherwise who would ever talk to me?

[Baelon Drakeson]

Oh yeah, I know it would be a terrible idea on multiple fronts, but it would be hilarious. To me, at least.

[Loreia]

Maybe Baelon had gone past the Free Cities and was introduced to the Dothraki with Gwyneth by her father? Maybe the sight of the best riders in the world, who all shoot arrows from horseback, inspired him.

I think we could make a special unit of Archers called Crossbowmen who would be basically the same until they became cavalry, and are then unable to be commanded to move and shoot on the same Warfare turn without sacrificing 1-2D to Marksmanship?

Or we can simply have this rule apply to all archer cavalry, including the Bloodriders, without spending Power to remove that penalty (for which VP would be required?)

[Baelon Drakeson]

Maybe Baelon had gone past the Free Cities and was introduced to the Dothraki with Gwyneth by her father? Maybe the sight of the best riders in the world, who all shoot arrows from horseback, inspired him.

No, the farthest across the Narrow Sea that Baelon has been is the Stepstones. Baelon has never met Gwyn's father. He went missing long before Baelon joined House Marsten.
Just stories in books, and first-hand accounts of travelers.

I think we could make a special unit of Archers called Crossbowmen who would be basically the same until they became cavalry, and are then unable to be commanded to move and shoot on the same Warfare turn without sacrificing 1-2D to Marksmanship?

Or we can simply have this rule apply to all archer cavalry, including the Bloodriders, without spending Power to remove that penalty (for which VP would be required?)

There is a command for that already, and any unit can do it - "fighting withdrawal". The unit makes an attack (fighting or marksmanship) at -1D, then moves half it's movement.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Gwyn's kind of obsessed with Essos lore though, so she may have infected him with some of it.

[Theomore Tullison]

special B, he's been a powerhouse since Story 1.

[Reader]

Think that's Theomore quoting my PM with Ser Bryndon Hightower's stats. He was a strong contender in Story 1's joust, trying to accurately reflect his prowess in canon!

Will try to update NPC picturebook over the holiday season once (happy) issue noted in AFK thread settles down.

[Theomore Tullison]

Nah, that picture is already in there.

Hint: Have a look at what's happening in melee group 2

[Kevan Lyras]

Group 2 has so many scary participants. It is a lottery who survives it (and whoever it is, he will probably be beaten up for the finale)

[Ser Jorah Holt]

it won't be a pleasant group that is for sure

[Ayleth Bartheld]

Mounted crossbowmen are really more of a support for knights than they are a separate 'unit' of their own. Because reloading was so awkward, they often just fired once and they joined the charge. They are also a counter-tactic to either other armies that do use horse archers, or to pike formations. The series seems kind of ambiguous about the uses of pike formations.

Horse archery is hardly unknown... but certainly it might offend the more tradition-bound of Westerosi war leaders. Archers are mostly smallfolk, and smallfolk can't be allowed to be the backbone of an army, no no no, that would challenge the place of knights in society, and we can't have that!

Well, it's partially social. Notoriously, knights were not above riding over their own archers if they thought it would help them win a battle.
But it's also important to note knightly armor is really very effective in protecting against horse archery. In the Crusades it was discovered knights had to be absolutely riddled with arrows before they would die. Other leaders are certainly going to wonder why you plink away at the enemy when you could be charging them.
That said, horse archers could be very handy as a mobile anti-dragon force (to the limited extent that any non-dragon unit is useful against dragons)

Specific weapon usage is abstracted in warfare units, so it would just be an Archer unit.

I'd guess a lot of "Archers" are crossbowmen. Crossbows are much easier to train and use, and they have armor piercing capabilities that shortbows really lack.

The base game's failure to distinguish between knights (or mounted men at arms, if you prefer) and other types of cavalry is a mistake, I think. Their tactical uses are very different.

[Loreia]

I've had to change Loreia's thoughts in her private moment in her gown at the Coldbrook grand ball event, but it's been fun playing with how previous interactions can change how one acts or thinks in the same moment. It's also fortunate that the "actions" were in private, it was geared toward her inward thoughts, away from set-in-stone narrative circumstances.

She's not interested in sharing how her dress is different, so no offense to anyone who's asked. I'm a little excited for a moment when someone seizes a moment to strike when they believe she's vulnerable, but then "surprise, this is my battledress! Oh, I need to get my sword."

[Benedict Marsten]

I am having some difficulty getting this timeline of events straight in my head. If I am correct we deal with mushrooms shenanigans, we pray, the merry men secretly depart for Myr/others research stepstones, then warriors depart for Stepstones/others begin the dance of support at KL. Did the Merry Men return to immediately depart again or remain abroad?

[Nathaniel Mason]

I am having some difficulty getting this timeline of events straight in my head. If I am correct we deal with mushrooms shenanigans,  we pray, the merry men secretly depart for Myr/others research stepstones, then warriors depart for Stepstones/others begin the dance of support at KL. Did the Merry Men return to immediately depart again or remain abroad?

That is how I view events. Travel looks to be largely handwaved. If you have a pressing need to be in KL, that should be fine, but Ben going from Myr to the Stepstones would probably be more likely.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I am having some difficulty getting this timeline of events straight in my head. If I am correct we deal with mushrooms shenanigans,  we pray, the merry men secretly depart for Myr/others research stepstones, then warriors depart for Stepstones/others begin the dance of support at KL. Did the Merry Men return to immediately depart again or remain abroad?

If you need me to change the farewell post to have a more private setting, or to reflect Corrine not knowing about the Myr mission, let me know.

[Theomore Tullison]

I think Phase 1 is mostly politicking, building up forces and general preparation for the campaign, that Myr thing is a quick dash across the narrow sea, back before you know it.

[Baelon Drakeson]

The base game's failure to distinguish between knights (or mounted men at arms, if you prefer) and other types of cavalry is a mistake, I think. Their tactical uses are very different.

Agreed, though the ability to cross-train units covers for that somewhat. The book even mentions that Crusaders (mechanically indistinct from infantry) are often crusader/cavalry. The cavalry unit presented is clearly intended to be heavy cavalry (lances and relatively heavy armor, chain or half-plate) but I think would have been better served to be a cheaper but less powerful "light cavalry" unit, which could then be cross-trained (with personal guard, for instance) to make heavy cavalry. Part of the problem is that the system was not designed well enough to accommodate non-traditional (from a westerosi perspective) units. You can make a Dothraki horde (or close enough - cavalry archers, choose archer armor), but from a game mechanics perspective that's pretty pointless - choosing the heavier armor is almost always better.

I am having some difficulty getting this timeline of events straight in my head. If I am correct we deal with mushrooms shenanigans,  we pray, the merry men secretly depart for Myr/others research stepstones, then warriors depart for Stepstones/others begin the dance of support at KL. Did the Merry Men return to immediately depart again or remain abroad?

I find it best to think of the Mushroom event (and the gathering in KL altogether) as an official send-off, not the actual departure - most of our troops are probably not actually there, just the leaders and enough soldiers to make it look like an army. We pray (1.0), we go to the official event, then mushroom heckles us (1,1), then go about our business finishing preparations for the actual departure, and trying to get some intel to help make it successful (1.2). the actual troop departure probably wouldn't occur until 1.3 or even later in phase 1 (as actual war/combat doesn't seem to happen until Phase 2). As Nathan says, whether you return to Westeros or join the forces in the Stepstones directly can likely be hand-waived to fit whatever... I mean, what makes sense might depend on what the results are; if it affects the initial targets, it might make sense to bring that information to the top brass before troops start leaving for the Stepstones.
EDIT: or of course if you get captured, though that seems unlikely the way the Merry Men variant has been set up.

If you need me to change the farewell post to have a more private setting, or to reflect Corrine not knowing about the Myr mission, let me know.

Given that we all had the opportunity to go, I'd say we all knew of the mission.  

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

It doesn't make much sense for everyone to know about it though. It's not very secret then. I took it as you could volunteer to be invited into it. But even, then, it feels odd to mix both factions for it anyway, so I likely don't know what I'm talking about and will shut up.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Yeah, I assumed the 'everyone can go' thing was more an OOC decision based on OOC information, and that the mission itself was on a need to know basis.

Though it'd be good to have some idea of what the PCs do know, IC, if they're not on the mission.

[Baelon Drakeson]

I figured that we all know about it, and that what makes it work is that those of us going can get there as fast (or with luck, faster) than the news about the opportunity... which is why we don't have the time to seek out professionals to do it, we have to make do with the personnel we have on hand.

By the time the Myrish hear about it, our people will be in, out, and making use of the intel. At least, that's the plan.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Yeah, I assumed the 'everyone can go' thing was more an OOC decision based on OOC information, and that the mission itself was on a need to know basis.

Though it'd be good to have some idea of what the PCs do know, IC, if they're not on the mission.

I disagree with Baelon entirely.  I see no reason why the Myr 'secret' mission would be common knowledge beyond those taking that particular story route.  Corrine might know because Ben is going, and he might have told her IC, but that would be Ben's decision.

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