Re: Mechanical discussion

[Reader]

I'd like to do more intrigues, but I get so confused by the mechanics that I shy away from them.

Maybe one of our more experienced players can help with a worked example? I'd love to help but very focused on keeping the story moving.

At least you've had several v NPCs (Blackwood negotiations &
Kriegars spring to mind), but I've tried to keep yours to simple checks. One of the joys of the system is the flexibility - can be very complicated or simple.

A suggestion - an intrigue on D3 with low stakes (squabble with your husband? Swapping clues with another PC?) to test the system out at your own pace with an understanding partner?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Thanks for the advice. The squabble was almost an intrigue, but Ben &
I realised that we were fine with rp alone there, and also that it was bloody hard to engineer an actual argument.

[Yoren longshore]

Thanks for the advice. The squabble was almost an intrigue, but Ben &
I realised that we were fine with rp alone there, and also that it was bloody hard to engineer an actual argument.

How about this: Yoren has a gift he wants to give to Benjicot. However, he does not want to be seen as impartial, so he'd like to have someone to deliver his gift, that someone could be Corrine. What corrine wants with Yoren I don't know...

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Thanks for the advice. The squabble was almost an intrigue, but Ben &
I realised that we were fine with rp alone there, and also that it was bloody hard to engineer an actual argument.

How about this: Yoren has a gift he wants to give to Benjicot. However, he does not want to be seen as impartial, so he'd like to have someone to deliver his gift, that someone could be Corrine. What corrine wants with Yoren I don't know...

Perhaps she wants Yoren to have a word with his little brother about how bad an idea it is to try and steal someone else's spouse. :;
):

[Loreia]

You should try to come up with a solution to ask in return that would accomplish the same thing, but would be something your opponent would hesitate to exchange. Asking Yoren to intrigue Athelstan into keeping it in his pants for the duration of the week seems like a better one. You'd be asking Yoren to order around/manipulate a sibling, and therefore the utility of complex intrigue beyond simple roleplay becomes viable.

[Yoren longshore]

And Yoren might throw in a suggestion for Corrine to help find someone for Athelstan, which she might be hesitant to do, either because of the "
he's mine"
or simply as you've seen a bad side of him, and you don't want a woman to be under his controll. Should we start an intrigue?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

And Yoren might throw in a suggestion for Corrine to help find someone for Athelstan, which she might be hesitant to do, either because of the "
he's mine"
or simply as you've seen a bad side of him, and you don't want a woman to be under his controll. Should we start an intrigue?

Sure! Present yourself at Corrine &
Ben's room at the inn during the EN slot.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Corrine! Want to have a meetup on Day 3?

Dunstan, I still think it would be fun to have a scene with you too.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Corrine! Want to have a meetup on Day 3?

I'd love to!

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Hurrah! When's good for you? When and where I should say.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

1. Can i move after attack?
2. Is there way to move out from opponent without causing opportunity attack?

[Reader]

1. Can i move after attack?
2. Is there way to move out from opponent without causing opportunity attack?

1. Yes.
2. By using maneuver to force an opponent away or similar abilities.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

1. as long as you have a minor action left or use a fatigue point

[Theomore Tullison]

So it has been flying around here and there that read target gives clues as to character's objective/motivation.

That's somewhat ambiguous, read target doesn't do that in and of itself, it gives you +1D on various rolls later in the intrigue, and opponent's disposition (towards you or subject of discussion). Though the ability description indicates that awareness(empathy) gives you a hunch about the motivations and attitudes of the target with more DoS.

Might be an idea to clarify what we think it means.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Maybe the 'hunch' application only functions outside of intrigues? The +1D could be the solid mechanical intrigue-benefit that reflects the application of the hunchwork of a good Awareness roll, perhaps.

[Baelon Drakeson]

I'm AFB so i may not have this quite right, but I thought it also gave the technique used that exchange (if any), which would also reveal whether it was persuasion or deception being used - which can be very telling (and if not, there is no way to tell if someone is lying to you, which makes no sense to me whatsoever).

[Reader]

Maybe the 'hunch' application only functions outside of intrigues? The +1D could be the solid mechanical intrigue-benefit that reflects the application of the hunchwork of a good Awareness roll, perhaps.

That's the way I've been running things, often a simple check against passive deception to pick-up on subtle signals from NPCs. I've noticed some PCs doing this too, great to see.

Awareness: empathy (my emphasis)
"
Make an Awareness test against your target’s passive Deception result,
with a success revealing the target’s general disposition toward you
or the topic of your conversation. Attaining additional degrees reveal a
greater sense about the target’s motivations, attitudes and so on. This
use of Awareness doesn’t provide mind-reading;
it merely lets you get an
instinctual hunch about a target’s motives based on his manner, expressions,
and the tone of his voice."

[Nathaniel Mason]

As far as I am aware, the action 'Read Target' if successful just tells you the persons current Disposition, the next technique they will use, and +1D to Per/Dec till the end of the Intrigue.

It is an Awareness (Empathy) check that gives you some insight into a persons motives and objectives.. and only if you obtain more than one success. This can be used at any time as a Free action inside or outside an Intrigue.

Under the rules, these are two entirely different things and would be rolled separately.

[Theomore Tullison]

By RAW, no, read target does not tell you whether deception is used or not. Though deception can be any number of dishonest things, not necessarily lies.

But if your read target tells you that the opponent is indifferent towards you and using seduction, or someone unfriendly towards you using charm, then you know something is fishy.

The crossover is that you use awareness(empathy) for read target, so inside of intrigue, it's kinda like, you spend a free action to learn disposition and if that fails, you can do read target? Or if your read target fails, can you then do free action to learn disposition anyway?

[Nathaniel Mason]

The crossover is that you use awareness(empathy) for read target, so inside of intrigue, it's kinda like, you spend a free action to learn disposition and if that fails, you can do read target? Or if your read target fails, can you then do free action to learn disposition anyway?

By RAW, since the test is a free action, yeah.. pretty much.

Free Actions are minor actions that consume very little time.
Usually, these things include shouting orders to men under your command,
drawing a weapon, dropping your weapon to the ground, and
just about anything else that consumes little or no time. Generally, you
can perform as many Free Actions as you like, but your Narrator may
judge extensive conversation or rooting around in a saddlebag to be
more time-consuming than a Free Action ordinarily allows.

Technically they can do the test as often as they like, although I would probably restrict it to once per exchange within an Intrigue.

[Theomore Tullison]

In narrator shoes, I'd probably say that if you do the free action awareness-empathy test more than once for practically the same thing (such as getting a read on person X in situation Z when circumstances since you did that in situation Y has not changed.), then you get the same result as the first time.

I'd suggest that within an intrigue, you can do a free action awareness-empathy to get hints of opponent's objective. But disposition and technique is not known to you unless you succeed at read target.

[Reader]

In narrator shoes, I'd probably say that if you do the free action awareness-empathy test more than once for practically the same thing (such as getting a read on person X in situation Y), then you get the same result as the first time.

I'd suggest that within an intrigue, you can do a free action awareness-empathy to get hints of opponent's objective. But disposition and technique is not known to you unless you succeed at read target.

Yeah, nobody has been cheeky enough to ask if they can keep trying the same free action, even over multiple rounds or during the same non-intrigue scene.

With my tough new narrator boots on, trying this would be a good way to demonstrate to the narrator that you're a powergaming nut-case and aren't really appropriate for the game.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Well, if we are talking about House-ruling Awareness and Read Target, then I would say you only get Disposition with Awareness.

Read target gives you technique and +1D on one success, in addition to Disposition.

Awareness only gives you Disposition on one success.

Of course, that won't stop them from trying to discern your disposition repeatedly, which is what I think you are really trying to prevent here.

Personally I have no problem with RAW... but I am not Treacherous.

[Nathaniel Mason]

With my tough new narrator boots on, trying this would be a good way to demonstrate to the narrator that you're a powergaming nut-case and aren't really appropriate for the game.

You could always limit the number of free actions to one per round. That would be universal to both Intrigue and Combat. However I would make exceptions for advantages that grant free actions.

Of course, that would still mean someone could look askance at Theomore once per exchange.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

I just saw Baelon's personal combat's thread, and he mentioned he would like to use fatigue to get no AP if attackef. Is it something i must call before being atracked or can i do it even after attack?

[Sponsored content]