Re: Character Creation Workshop

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Yeah, lets go with that. I like that idea, and it gives you more connection.

Plus, then all the hilarious rumors can swirl around you instead of the hollow space previously occupied by Willem.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Plus, then all the hilarious rumors can swirl around you instead of the hollow space previously occupied by Willem.

Exactly!

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Everyone else - I'm still looking for a nemesis in another house. If no one is interested, I'll drop the drawback.

Might be worth PMing Leifnarr to see if they're interested. They do mention 'If you are interested in having a brutish enemy/opponent/etc., here I am.', and thematically, they'd be a great 'mirror adversary'. Just an idea, mind.

[Reader]

Reader - For the personal goals, are you looking for short term, long term, or all of the above?

Everyone else - I'm still looking for a nemesis in another house. If no one is interested, I'll drop the drawback.

Gwyn, we previously talked about Ser Baelon being your escort to/from Tullison lands. I'll let you decide if that was the case or not.
If so, members of House Tullison will know Baelon first hand.

Personal goal is a mechanical thing to earn a benefit.

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t=127

[Baelon Drakeson]

Personal goal is a mechanical thing to earn a benefit.

viewtopic.php?f=75&
t=127

Oh, THAT personal goal. Yeah, kind of forgot about that.

[Athelstan]

Hi, I was looking into some help if you do not mind.

I'm going to be joining House Longshore.

My character would play the part of the "
Cursed"
line, an inheritance from Andrik Longshore.

Bastard Born of Lord Ferris, Athelstan Rivers.
Lord Ferris does not deny or accept him as his bastard.

Goal: Power
Be acknowledged as a Longshore or carve his own place.
Motivation: Hatred
His line is purer than his true heir, he carries the curse of Andrik "
the Mad"
within him.
Virtues: Courageous
He fears naught that what is to come as long as he get's what he wants.
Vice: Ambitious
Well this would be he wants to be recognized as a true son or get his own house or be a banner lord of House Longshore.

Looking to tie him to Leifnarr as having fought with him some times, but Athelstan understands that to survive he must also learn the ways of the courts and not just the Old Way.

Any ideas of what else I could add or change to better adapt it.

I would do a cousin instead of a bastard.

[Garret Snow]

Yay, new players!

But wouldn't he be Athelstan Pyke, if he's ironborn?

[Athelstan]

Not if he is born in the Riverlands, which is where the the House is located, even if their allegiance is to the Greyjoys.

[Theomore Tullison]

Well, to use the name Rivers, you'd sort of need to be acknowledged. Though the Mya Stone example of the books indicate that isn't necessarily the case.

As much as I tend to ignore the Goal/Motivation/Virtue/Vice thing, I don't think I bothered to even write something for Theomore of those things, but if you want to use them, you probably need a lecture.

Goal is what your character wants the most and motivation is why you want it,

Virtue is what your character is at his best, Vice is what he's at his worst.

So if you pick "
ambitious"
, then the dark side of Athelstan could be him rather overtly pursuing his goals, with no regard for consequences (and collateral damage).

But what I would want you think about the most is to give your character traits which you are able to play out in a way to create content for others. Particularly outside house Longshore.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Yar, you gotta watch out, I think...with Longshore. It'd be easy to sort of accidentally find yourself in a situation where no one will really want to treat with you. Our other Longshore PCs have done a pretty good job of avoiding that, but it is a danger of the House. They are a different breed than the other Houses, and isolated as a result.

[Reader]

Hi, I was looking into some help if you do not mind.

I'm going to be joining House Longshore.

My character would play the part of the "
Cursed"
line, an inheritance from Andrik Longshore.

Bastard Born of Lord Ferris, Athelstan Rivers.
Lord Ferris does not deny or accept him as his bastard.

Goal: Power
Be acknowledged as a Longshore or carve his own place.
Motivation: Hatred
His line is purer than his true heir, he carries the curse of Andrik "
the Mad"
within him.
Virtues: Courageous
He fears naught that what is to come as long as he get's what he wants.
Vice: Ambitious
Well this would be he wants to be recognized as a true son or get his own house or be a banner lord of House Longshore.

Looking to tie him to Leifnarr as having fought with him some times, but Athelstan understands that to survive he must also learn the ways of the courts and not just the Old Way.

Any ideas of what else I could add or change to better adapt it.

I would do a cousin instead of a bastard.

Looks promising and further complicates House Longshore.

Drop me a PM with any thoughts, I'm sure your fellow house members will chime in too.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Not if he is born in the Riverlands, which is where the the House is located, even if their allegiance is to the Greyjoys.

Well, it's all a matter of what the people around him call him. The whole bastard name thing is less of a hard-and-fast rule and more of a cultural norm. Norms do not follow neat and tidy delineations. So really, it would probably be whatever his mother named him - if she was a riverlander he would probably be a Rivers. If she were culturally Ironborn, he would probably be a Pyke. I mean, no one is going to object that Athelstan shouldn't be using one of those names (not like if he called himself Athelstan Longshore). For that matter, whatever he was named as a child doesn't matter so much as what he calls himself now - especially if he is an unknown to most. If he aims to be an Ironborn, I would think he would use Pyke - it shows that he identifies himself with that culture.

For what it's worth, Theomore and I disagree significantly on the relation between recognition and name use - I think that most unrecognized bastards (like Gendry) don't use the name because bastardy amongst the commoners is so common that most don't care, and most don't use last names anyway, so why bother? However, if born from a noble mother, or if the mother is trying to claim that the father is noble, she would probably name the child using the culturally appropriate bastard name.

[Athelstan]

I also thought it that way Baelon, in regards with the naming.

I also believe I was creating content for within the House, while the content outside the House, I'm still an unknown to most, so that content was something I would develop through gameplay, while I can't say that some people have heard "
stories"
or rumors of Athelstan and his deeds or misdeeds that would be part of what is commonly known of him, like he goes raiding with Leifnarr from time to time, as proof he can fight amongst other things.

[Theomore Tullison]

Gendry didn't even know who his father was, which may well be the reason he doesn't use it.

Mya Stone is a known bastard of Robert, so she uses the name, though she is also not acknowledged, which means she is no part of House Baratheon. Unlike Edric Storm, who's acknowledged and therefore he has certain privileges. Useful read: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2999/

In short, since a bastard cannot use the name of his father's house (or mother, if daddy is smallfolk), he uses Rivers or Pyke or whatever as a surname to stake a claim to the privileges of noble birth and being a (lowly) member of daddy's house. That claim requires acknowledgement to be valid. That being said, if a lord treats an unacknowledged bastard as an acknowledged one, then he'll probably be treated as such by the rest of the household. Should daddy die though, the widow can kick him out of the castle just like that, because his privileges depends wholly on goodwill rather than rights to them.

[Theomore Tullison]

I also thought it that way Baelon, in regards with the naming.

I also believe I was creating content for within the House, while the content outside the House, I'm still an unknown to most, so that content was something I would develop through gameplay, while I can't say that some people have heard "
stories"
or rumors of Athelstan and his deeds or misdeeds that would be part of what is commonly known of him, like he goes raiding with Leifnarr from time to time, as proof he can fight amongst other things.

Precisely. Make a character that does things in play that other characters can jump in on and collaborate to write the story. Background need not be intermingled with other houses, all it takes is that it allows for you to make the story yet to be written intermingled with other houses.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Useful read: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2999/

Interesting read;
I had not read it before, and it confirmed what I thought. Here is the section most relevant here:

Bastard names are given only to bastards with at least one parent of high birth. So the bastard child of two peasants would have no surname at all.

Thus a bastard name like "
Snow"
or "
Rivers"
is simultaneously a stigma and a mark of distinction. The whole thing with bastard names is custom, not law.

The highborn parent can bestow the usual name, a new one of his/her own devising, or none at all.

Theomore focuses on the first line, I focus on the second sentence in the second line, and the third line is most relevant to the discussion at hand. Whaddya know, we're all right.

[Theomore Tullison]

Important part being that it`s just a name tacked on. A curious example being glendon flowers, who`s mother claims him to be the son of quentyn ball, but the father could be anyone. So he uses the name to claim the heritage. But as he isnt`t recognized, he needs to carve out his own fortune. Not being acknowledged means that you`re not considered a part of House Longshore, but acknowledgement only makes you a member of fathers house without inheritance rights (as far as westerosi legalese goes, but Joffrey showed us what swords can do with books), so you don`t get to take the Longshore name. Legitimization is a step up (and requires royal decree), which makes you a full member that can use the Longshore name and be in the inheritance chain.

[Athelstan]

Well, having "
settled"
the bastard part, it should be fun to play once I get everything written down.

He will be an all rounder character to start, even if XP is slow so not much improvement he will have a decent chance in both intrigues and combat.

[Loreia]

I figure the concept-building steps aren't stone, but it's there to help sculpt your character's personality and help you roleplay. Whatever your goal, your vice(s) would prevent you from reaching it quicker than you would otherwise, and even your virtue(s) depending on what it is. Ignoring your own virtues or code to get what you want is something to think about. I find ambition hard to pin down, but I'd imagine an opportunity to advance your station or gain glory would be very enticing, and not necessarily because it's related to your goal. You chose hatred as your motivation, well who, or what group, do you hate?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

(please delete or disregard this post)

Hey all. New to the group and am rumaging around my head for PC ideas.

I figure I'll try my odd idea first, then maybe move to something more traditional.

Is there any room for a female Braavosi water dancer? House Marsten seems a fit due to distance, but I think any house might do?

The idea I have in mind is an adventurer trying to make a name for herself in Essos, maybe working for a house as a sell sword/body guard to one of the ladies? Someone who could be inconspicuous when needed, but deadly/sneaky also?

Or maybe a bastard from some traveling house family member that made it across the sea, and she's looking for some sort of purpose or connection to something?

Dunno, like I said, just spitballin'.

[Athelstan]

I would say the bastard, and you would find some kindred spirits with the Longshore boys lol.

Just don't make it a Longshore, we got enough issues with 1 bastard there lol.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Hey all. New to the group and am rumaging around my head for PC ideas.

I figure I'll try my odd idea first, then maybe move to something more traditional.

Is there any room for a female Braavosi water dancer? House Marsten seems a fit due to distance, but I think any house might do?

The idea I have in mind is an adventurer trying to make a name for herself in Essos, maybe working for a house as a sell sword/body guard to one of the ladies? Someone who could be inconspicuous when needed, but deadly/sneaky also?

Or maybe a bastard from some traveling house family member that made it across the sea, and she's looking for some sort of purpose or connection to something?

Dunno, like I said, just spitballin'.

Hello and welcome!

House Marsten could use a little love, we are currently the smallest player house.

The character concept would be a bit of an odd fit as the Marstens tend toward the traditional, but that isn't necessarily a problem;
actually we are one of the few houses with an explicit tie to Essos - Mikael, the younger brother of our deceased lord (and Gwyneth's father) went to Essos, ostensibly to 'make his fortune', but his true motives are unknown. He was not heard from again, so anything is possible (though Reader may have something in mind). He was, if memory serves, one for the ladies and may have left one bastard behind (Gareth Stone, parentage unknown but *looks* like Mikael), so another bastard would certainly be believable. You'd have to be kind of young though, as Mikael left when Gwyneth was 7 (not sure how old Gwyn is, but that can't have been much more than 10 or 12 years ago). Of course, if you are not actually his child (maybe ended up his ward somehow, or the older half-sister of one or more of his actual children, or something like that) you could be whatever age you wanted.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Hi there! As you can see, I'm new, though I hope to get involved soon! I am still reading through everything, but I'd like to start moulding a character idea, and thought outside help would be valuable.

I'm not massively set on a particular house, but I'm currently leaning towards House Kytley. My initial idea is a young-ish daughter of the house, though possibly approaching an age that will make finding her a good match a bit more difficult. She'd have grudgingly learned some courtly skills, though frustrated her parents by learning a weapon skill (most likely archery or short blades, perhaps with the help of a knight close to the family, or a male sibling),earning her a reputation for being 'mannish', and being resistant to getting married, though acknowledges that it is largely out of her hands. She'd have at least a distrust of the Freys and the Ironborn, and, if of House Kytley, would detest House Frey. She'd value fairness, and so would be in favour of women ruling and inheriting. She'd be open-hearted, honourable, and passionate, and would likely struggle with the loose morality and maliciousness of others. She'd be pious, worshipping the Seven, but tolerant of others' faiths. I noticed that Robert Kytley has a twin sister, so was thinking perhaps going for that, with the above characteristics, or if they're too old, creating someone new?

Goal: Freedom/Independence/Respect
Become a respected woman in her own right, not just someone's bedwarmer. Improve the standing of her house.
Motivation: Fairness/Honour/Justice
She wants to be the change she wishes to see in the world, and she believes in a more moral world.
Virtues: Brave/Honourable/Compassionate
She always tries to do the right thing, and tries to help the helpless
Vice: Naivete
She is young, and has not been involved much in courtly intrigue. She may be easy to manipulate/bully.

I'm really keen to get this right, so I'd value your input.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Hi there! As you can see, I'm new, though I hope to get involved soon! I am still reading through everything, but I'd like to start moulding a character idea, and thought outside help would be valuable.

Hello and welcome to you, too!
Two new players in one evening, huzzah!

The primary thought I have about your character idea is that we don't currently have any Kytley players. On one hand, it would be great to bring in another house, on the other hand, I can tell you from first hand experience being the only member of a house is kind of frustrating (I was the solo Kytley for the majority of a previous game). If you do go down that road, I would suggest tying your character strongly with another house, that way you have other PCs you already know.

Another option would be to consider adapting Ysme Bartheld... hmm, she's not listed on the sample character page... well, she's Davain's younger cousin and a bit of a "
wild child"
that doesn't really see the need to obey social norms or fit into the defined gender roles. Here's some of her description in the campaign starter.

...Ysme continues to act as though the family land
means that no one can tell her what to do. That isn’t to say
that Ysme is out of touch with reality. Rather, she knows that
unlike her ancestors, who were dependent upon their patrons,
there is a place she can always call home. Since she is no longer
dependent upon anyone but her family—who she knows
will never let her go hungry or homeless—she sees no reason
to live by the laws that have constrained Westeros’s women
for hundreds of years.
As a result, Ysme has grown into an uncontrollable young
woman. She runs wild through the halls of Hart House and
through the hills and forests of the surrounding countryside.
Brom was convinced that Ysme would never settle down, and
he gave her the run of Hart House. Lord Davain continues
this tradition...
...Ysme cleans up well, but is uncomfortable
in formal clothes and makes no effort to hide it.
Despite her declaration that she will never marry, Ysme
still occasionally entertains suitors at Hart House. She leads
them on long enough to humiliate them, but some desperate
noblemen hoping to enrich faltering houses take this as
reason to hope.

Of course, such a character could probably be fit into any of the houses, so don't feel like you have to choose between Ysme or your original Kytley idea.

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