Re: Against the Mountain Clans

[Benedict Marsten]

Group 2: Hills - 6 units, Commander: Ben - Kevan Subcommanders(3): Baelon, Dyana, Jon Roxton

20 Green Cavalry [House Marsten]
100 Trained archers [House Dulver]

20 Veteran Heavy Mounted Archers [House Drakeson]
20 Trained Cavalry [Black Faction]


20 Green Cavalry [House Roxton]
100 Green support [House Dulver] (note: noncombatants)

Assuming this group doesn't change. Any objections or clarifications needed?

[Baelon Drakeson]

It doesn't really work that way - we can all give orders to any unit in our army. That can be quite significant, as units can also receive multiple orders per round. That can be quite significant - one order to advance your archers into position, a second to fire...

In terms of attaching to units, that makes sense. The only reason to attach a commander/subcommander to a unit is so that the commander/subcommander doesn't get attacked directly by an enemy unit. Units get +2d to attack individuals. A Green unit probably won't do much to those of us in plate, but the more advanced enemies could do some real damage. When attached, you take 1 point of damage (ignores AR) when the unit takes any amount of damage. More damage is done if worse things happen to the unit (disorganized, routed, or destroyed).

Ben, I would suggest that you attach to the Black Cavalry.

EDIT: Now, if you just want to split it up for narrative purposes, I would put the Dulver archers with me - it's best to think of my unit as mobile artillery more than the stereotypical mongol horse archers. Not that they couldn't pull off a Parthian shot, they just aren't likely to.

[Benedict Marsten]

Personal combat opportunities
Three"
single combat"
challenges available against an opponent. Volunteers.

If you guys don't defeat them, they attach to a unit giving it +1 Fighting &
Marksmanship.

Harma The quick
Agility 4, Endurance 4, Fighting 5 (Spears 1B), Cunning 4, Will 3
Boar Spear, Hard Leather armour

Arrand Two Axes
Agility 3, Athletics 4, Fighting 5 (Axes 1B) Endurance 4, Will 3
Battleaxe, Handaxe, Hard Leather Armour

Tyron the Tall
Agility 3, Athletics 5 (Strength 1B), Fighting 4 (Axes 2B) Endurance 4, Will 4
Mail Shirt, Longaxe

Ohh! Ohhh! Pick me.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Which one? Or are you mad enough to want all of them?

[Benedict Marsten]

All three may be a little much. Maybe. :8-):

I would definitely call out Tyron the Tall.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I see no reason why you couldn't have him. Go for it!

[Baelon Drakeson]

I'll take any of the three. Might be best not to risk our commanders, though, if we have enough other volunteers. Remember that any fatigue, injuries, or wounds you would take would affect your Warfare tests. Some units will be fairly easy to give orders to, but others will be tougher. A subcommander having a penalty or two would probably not be a big problem. Commanders, by virtue of issuing more commands will also likely have higher TNs - so even a few penalties could result in failed orders.

Tyron the Tall does 9 damage per DoS with a standard attack... once you get inside his range he's not too bad. The real danger is losing initiative and getting charged... a 2 DoS charge would be 22 damage, enough to force an Endurance 4 character in plate to take an injury. A 3 DoS charge would be unlikely, but would force the same character to take 4 injuries.

[Septon Arlyn]

I wonder if some sneaky / persuasiony types could not have a list of their own to chip off of, representative of some subterfuge or assassination attempt of some leaders or convincing some clansmen that their cause is doomed and it would be better to kneel then to die.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Clansmen don't kneel. They would declare a blood feud and fight anyway.

[Septon Arlyn]

Or maybe persuasion could be used to convince some units not to join the battle, or at least delay them in joining, playing into the mistrust that the clans have between each other

[Septon Arlyn]

Or maybe provide drink for a battle as good as won. Playing off the hurbis of the clansmen host to provide -D in combat

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Giving the clans a fuckton of booze isn't a bad idea. It's horrible, but it would make them less effective. Nathan suggested it a while ago.

[Septon Arlyn]

That is where I got the idea from. And it is awful. But when it's war and us vs them every edge is a good edge. Now Septon Arlyn may object but even he can be convinced of its effectiveness in keeping his people safe. It might take a minor intrigue to get him to help but once convinced he could be a pretty powerful support in getting that going

[Benedict Marsten]

I'll take any of the three. Might be best not to risk our commanders, though, if we have enough other volunteers. Remember that any fatigue, injuries, or wounds you would take would affect your Warfare tests. Some units will be fairly easy to give orders to, but others will be tougher. A subcommander having a penalty or two would probably not be a big problem. Commanders, by virtue of issuing more commands will also likely have higher TNs - so even a few penalties could result in failed orders.

Tyron the Tall does 9 damage per DoS with a standard attack... once you get inside his range he's not too bad. The real danger is losing initiative and getting charged... a 2 DoS charge would be 22 damage, enough to force an Endurance 4 character in plate to take an injury. A 3 DoS charge would be unlikely, but would force the same character to take 4 injuries.

You are thinking like a player not a character. :;
):

[Kevan Lyras]

I'd say you two go ahead and post your single combat threads and we get started while wait for the third challenger.

Regarding the warfare part: We have to wait until after the duells anyway, but the next thing we would need is a map/unit placement for the battle as this seems even more important than in melee due to the standing orders etc

[Baelon Drakeson]

I'll take any of the three. Might be best not to risk our commanders, though, if we have enough other volunteers. Remember that any fatigue, injuries, or wounds you would take would affect your Warfare tests. Some units will be fairly easy to give orders to, but others will be tougher. A subcommander having a penalty or two would probably not be a big problem. Commanders, by virtue of issuing more commands will also likely have higher TNs - so even a few penalties could result in failed orders.

Tyron the Tall does 9 damage per DoS with a standard attack... once you get inside his range he's not too bad. The real danger is losing initiative and getting charged... a 2 DoS charge would be 22 damage, enough to force an Endurance 4 character in plate to take an injury. A 3 DoS charge would be unlikely, but would force the same character to take 4 injuries.

You are thinking like a player not a character. :;
):

I'm doing some of both. In both cases I'm thinking like a strategist.
I don't think that thinking like a player is bad in OOC contexts. I'm not saying anything that Baelon wouldn't say - just the details are different. Both comments above could be reworked into IC posts - just without the mechanics. All I did was take the IC ideas of:

"
It's bad to risk your commander needlessly - morale falls when the commander gets hurt."

"
A guy like Tyron could cut a knight in half in a single blow, but get close to him and he won't be able to use the axe effectively."

and then put the mechanics on top of it to explain why, in the mechanics, these ideas actually happen.

[Baelon Drakeson]

(I'd imagine Harma can take injuries, but no wounds, otherwise this is over very quickly?)

These seem like secondary characters, so I'm thinking fatigue and injuries, but not wounds.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Couple of questions:

1. Should I make 'Wage War' my next House action?

2. Does kicking off the main campaign have to wait for the single combats to resolve?

3. How do we start the battles against the clans? I have no clue what I'm doing, and the book is just boggling my mind.

[Septon Arlyn]

1. yeah, but it will be part of the next three house fortune rolls because i think the reader decided that we get a total of 9 rolls before the next event in hopes that we can complete building some of our projects.

2. No, I think that the single combats take place during/around the campaign, before the major deciding battle. But I think that the reader wanted to make a form for it from his post in the timeline (against the mountain clans TL 125 or something like that)

3. There are a lot of bits and pieces to remember, that is why using miniatures/ vassal would be my encouragement. or at least the battle map that Baelon has created.

[Baelon Drakeson]

1. Probably. Your month 4 action, I would think.

2. Yes, because we have to know the outcomes to find out whether they attach to enemy units or not. Also we might lose a commander or subcommander if one of the fights goes badly.

3. Well, there's really not much for you to do. Once we have the single combats out of the way and determine a final split of forces we would still need maps from Reader. In my mini-war I took the liberty of creating the map because it's my home turf and given the terrain it was the logical place that the hall would have been built. With this however we are going into enemy territory, so we don't have as much control. Once we get the maps, it will all be in the hands of the commanders and subcommanders. Like I said, not really much for you to do, unless you take control of an NC subcommnander (you know you wanna Kriegar).

Side note, the war chapter is horrendously organized, with pre-battle stuff mixed in with the sequence of battle steps. Most of it can be ignored as we will not be having siege, and I doubt many people will want to go solo against the enemy, so we can probably ignore the hero actions. That leaves just the orders (I'm assuming we are aren't using advanced war stuff) and the effects of damage. That cuts it down to about 2.5 pages: 186 - 188.

After each battle there will be effects as per pages 188 - 189, but we can worry about that when we get there.

[Theomore Tullison]

Plus, doing battle in PbP....last time I tried that, it took two months and the momentum of the game.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

1. Probably. Your month 4 action, I would think.

Not sure if this has been superseded since, but I was told this on August 5th:

How many months do we have until the campaign against the clans kicks off?

6 month, tentatively (thinking 3m then personal story, then 3m - clan campaign - 3m house events, 3m next story, with some tweaking.

[Baelon Drakeson]

1. Probably. Your month 4 action, I would think.

Not sure if this has been superseded since, but I was told this on August 5th:

How many months do we have until the campaign against the clans kicks off?

6 month, tentatively (thinking 3m then personal story, then 3m - clan campaign - 3m house events, 3m next story, with some tweaking.

Ok, so it happens between the 2nd and 3rd chunks of HF rolls, so then Hose Marsten's month 6 action. That works too.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Ok, thanks. I'm just concerned about momentum, and want to keep things moving.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Lessons I learned from my mini-war:

• Location location location. Find the high ground. In mountains, that's +2b. In hills, it's +1B. Both are a huge benefit, as units do not typically get bonus dice.[/*4mr63gwy]
  
• Just like in combat, higher attack/damage units absolutely destroy (literally) most units. Standard defenses are low.[/*4mr63gwy]
  
• Quality over quantity. Higher-trained units are more effective, easier to command, more likely to stay on the battlefield, and more likely to survive the aftermath.[/*4mr63gwy]
  
• Leading from the front sounds all awesome and stuff, but make sure your unit can take hits well, or the damage will rack up fast. Not as fast as being unattached against anything other than the weakest of units. (Wearing full plate and up against a green unit doing 2 damage per DoS? Being unattached you cannot be hurt. Against most units, the +2D against you is going to hurt.) If you don't have a sturdy unit to attach to, stay WAY in the back, unattached, and make sure enemy units are destroyed before getting anywhere near you.[/*4mr63gwy]
  
• Expect to lose some units, or have your better units weakened. Especially front line and lesser trained units. Those Lyseni I fought? The three units I destroyed have a 4 in 6 chance of being destroyed (either by getting a 'destroyed' result or by having their training level reduced below green). They only have a 1 in 6 chance of staying Trained. Not good odds.[/*4mr63gwy]

I suggest that involved houses use the first two months of the next three to bolster their troops... invest power to raise training and/or wealth to improve equipment. Focus on a few key units, though.

I recommend that anyone who will be commanding read through the sample battle in the book, though it neglects the damage being done to the attached characters. In general, the important pages of the chapter are 186-189 (orders, damage, and consequences), and 194 (the example battle).

Anyone else have any thoughts?

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