Re: Crime and punishment (discussing how to mete out punishm

[Septon Arlyn]

That is not a terrible idea actually. Particularly if then Ser Wyl was fostered at House Bartheld, as I think that they are the second highest status of the player houses.


This is all, of course, considering the fact that Ser Tyron Blackwood doesn't get removed. from the IC converstaions that the Septon has had with him, He is sure that, because of his justifications, that he would feel no remorse at torching the Brackens fields before the last of the peacekeeping forces footfalls leave the valley

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

It was primarily about making Lord Blackwood a ward and Lord Tully was just the first lord that came to mind.

Just picking "
the first lord that came to mind"
makes for terrible decisions.

[Septon Arlyn]

That may be true, but that's also why we were trying to come to others to me fully formulate a plan. Just as Nathan's idea of requiring then to stabilize law is a good one, but I doubt that is the be all end all of his ideas to add to the treaty either.

So let's have a conversation about whom would be a better place to house young Benji. For it was not terribly long ago that house marsten marched against the Blackwood's. I'm not saying that it is a fair judgement OOC, but IC that is something that must be considered.

[Septon Arlyn]

I think IC everyone is pretty much on the same side, even if we are all trying to hide our motives from each other. Even Theomore with his scheming is putting evidence towards and directly involving Lord Bracken in the crimes of his men, making it easier, once we can pin it to him, to demand a harsher punishment towards him.

I don't think OOC hostility is helping

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

FFS! He belongs with his FAMILY!

[Septon Arlyn]

Then let's go for the penance to the wall plan and send Ser seffon Vance and Ser Tyron blackwood to the wall. I'm more concerned about Lord Benji's proximity to him then trying to split Lord Benji from his family

[Ser Walton Dulver]

FFS! He belongs with his FAMILY!

He is six years old, so i bet he calls lord tully 'uncle' :;
):

[Septon Arlyn]

As I said, I think we are on the same side, seeking peace for the riverlands. But the Septon just got done speaking with Ser Tyron, he knows if Ser Tyron's hatred and does not want the young Lord to be corrupted by it.

As Theomore says, nobles children were often raised by other house holds, it helps foster connection between different houses was the thought in history.

But let's focus on how to keep Benji there and exercise the rot from the tree.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

FFS! He belongs with his FAMILY!

He is six years old, so i bet he calls lord tully 'uncle' :;
):

His actual uncles include Kevan and Ben. Butt out. And stop meta-gaming while you're at it. If you planned your Blackwood thread for EA, bloody well post it in EA, rather than changing it because of OOC knowledge.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

FFS! He belongs with his FAMILY!

He is six years old, so i bet he calls lord tully 'uncle' :;
):

His actual uncles include Kevan and Ben. Butt out. And stop meta-gaming while you're at it. If you planned your Blackwood thread for EA, bloody well post it in EA, rather than changing it because of OOC knowledge.

I didnt put it into EA, because then i'm acting before You. Now i'm acting after. I guess jumping before You would be more inappropriate OOC on that occasion, isn't it?

Anyway, what is IC reason for skipping Lord Tully in the process?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I didnt put it into EA, because then i'm acting before You. Now i'm acting after. I guess jumping before You would be more inappropriate OOC on that occasion, isn't it?

Anyway, what is IC reason for skipping Lord Tully in the process?

You're allowed to act before me. I don't know what gave you the impression you couldn't. You just can't refer to later events, that's all.

Tully is not included in the investigation. I'm not acting outwith my purview.

[Yoren longshore]

If not Riverrun then another option is the royal court. There nobles from all across westeros will be gathered. It's also somewhere where he will be treated properly, both with respect, but still with people who can put a foot down.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

There's no point in discussing that, Yoren. Benjicot isn't leaving Raventree Hall. He's certainly not going to somewhere as dangerous as King's Landing. You do realise it would be even easier for his enemies to kill him there, right?

[Yoren longshore]

I'd say that kings landing would be the safest place. Kings landing has the gold cloaks. It has all of the royalty, so it's bound to be well protected. It's also far away from all Blackwoods and Brackens alike, the biggest problem there is the lack of teachers, the grandmaester is probably a very busy man. We'd have to send for another teacher there.
We have to get a good teacher either way, regardless of where he stays.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

There's no point in discussing that, Yoren. Benjicot isn't leaving Raventree Hall. He's certainly not going to somewhere as dangerous as King's Landing. You do realise it would be even easier for his enemies to kill him there, right?

Tell king he can't take ward to his court, because he can't provide him security actually what Yoren said is most appropriate IC, and i guess that thread is all about that, whateverWalton or anyone may think. Isnt it customs thread?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

The King is not going to ask for Benjicot's presence, and it isn't going to be offered to him, so that's irrelevant.

And, as I am fed up with saying, Benjicot will not be leaving his home.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

What the thread is actually about, if you read the title, is what punishments are to be accorded for the various crimes committed.

[Septon Arlyn]

Lady Corrine, as I stated earlier we are all on the same side. I doubt that there are very many of us OOC happy about the idea of Benjicot being fostered out, but to remove that tool completely from the tool box might be a bit premature.

Instead, let us focus on what we can agree on, or maybe not...

Do people feel like it is a good idea to keep Ser Tyron around Lord Benji?

I feel like from lord marstens post about a black cloak to match his black heart house marsten is in favor of removing him from house blackwood. Am I reading too much into that post?

Does the head of house marsten think differently then her lord consort?

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Given that the Dulvers are Green and are trying to make a power grab, we are not on the same side.

It is also not premature to say Benjicot is not leaving home, because I'm not speaking in OOC terms. House Marsten will fight to the hilt to keep him with his family.

Benjicot will not be around Tyron, because Tyron will be shortly sentenced to either death or the Wall.

Yes, Corrine and Ben both want Benjicot to stay with his family. Stop trying to manipulate Ben behind Corrine's back, because she will find out and then you can forget about getting onto the Marsten lands for that relic you want. Corrine is head of the house. Stop treating her like what she says doesn't matter. House Dulver is going the right way to become the Marstens' enemy, so I advise that you stop pretending to mediate a problem that your fellow house members have started.

[Septon Arlyn]

Lady Corrine, If I was suggesting to move Lord Benji to house dulver or house Bartheld, or insisting that he move to house tully, then I could see how that would be a power grab. I'm not. I'm saying that he should stay at the blackwoods, but we should remove Ser Tyron from house blackwood.

If we are going to not be moving Ser Tryon from house blackwood then that is when I would start advocating for Lord Benji to foster out. so lets focus on removing the poison from house blackwood

If any house has a reason to be committed to peace here it would be house dulver, as they would

A) not want to weaken a green house
B) not weaken kins house
C)prevent fighting between greens and kin

So if you could kindly stop accusing me OOC of power grabbing that would be greatly appreciated

[Nathaniel Mason]

Leave House Bartheld out of this please. Lord Davain has not weighed in on the matter, and I made my postion clear that I would see Benji go to House Marsten if it was necessary to move him at all, which I am unconvinced is either necessary or we have the authority to do.

Anyway, what is IC reason for skipping Lord Tully in the process?

Because Lord Gorman Tully is a complete nitwit and severely embarrassed himself before the Crown in Story 1.

I doubt the Crown would trust him with a potato right about now.

However, the bigger item we're discussing is forcing Benji to be fostered away from home, that is punishment not doled out lightly. If we exile/execute (alternatively have him take the black) Lord Haig, then such a measure is fitting for balance, otherwise, I don't really see a justification. If Benji becomes ward, then I don't see us agreeing on someplace else than Marsten, which may or may not factor into some people's decisions to go for that solution.

My suggestion of exchanging Heirs was simply a mutual destruction option to enforce peace. As I said, I do not consider it a good option in any way.

Lord Haig is a Status 6 Lord! There is not enough viable evidence against him that comes even close to unseating a man of his station. Based on what we have, we would have a hard time unseating a status 4 or even 3.

That may be true, but that's also why we were trying to come to others to me fully formulate a plan. Just as Nathan's idea of requiring then to stabilize law is a good one, but I doubt that is the be all end all of his ideas to add to the treaty either.

There are a lot of things that can be done without mucking with the Wards or Lords or whatever.

Both Houses must stabilize their Lands. (Law score of at least 31)

Neither House may have a military force greater than the other. (Power scores must be equal. Whoever has the higher current power score is capped, and the other House may only rebuild their military to that level).

The crown takes control of the Iron mines. (Both Houses lose their Mine Wealth investments (but not the Wealth Points) and the mines are directly overseen by the crown.) This would also mean that a Crown military force would be stationed in the area to protect the mines (and act as a potential policing force for either House.)

By the time both Houses pay substantial reparations to the various other Houses, they may not have the wealth to support the mine Wealth Investment in any case.

Quantify the damage done by both Houses and levi a punitive tax for their actions. (ie, assign a negative modifier to their House Fortune rolls for a period of time relative to their culpability in the matters before us.)

Force either House to start building a particular Wealth investment so they have something to concentrate on other than each other. Such as the Brackens rebuilding the shattered Sept into an Abbey, or the Blackwoods building a Minstrel's Seat, or both Houses coming together to rebuild the Green Door Inn as a Trading Inn.


All of these things can be accomplished with simple edicts... will have minimal backlash... and keep the Peace for a reasonable length of time. Much of the other things discussed seem to be beyond the scope of what we were sent here to do or beyond the authority of what any of us have.


.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I'm not accusing you OOC. It's IC that Dulver seems to be power grabbing. Why don't you guys stop banging on about an irrelevant issue. Tyron won't be at Raventree Hall much longer, so no need to move Benjicot.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

As Nathan has said well, there are plenty of options to achieve peace that are actually viable and way more efficient.

[Septon Arlyn]

I'm not trying to manipulate been behind Corinne's back either. I'm merely confirming that Lady Corinne and Lord Ben have the same opinion about sending Tyron to the wall. I'm not implying anything besides the fact that you guys represent 2 different PC's and there fore might have different opinions about what to do with Tyron blackwood.

And just as I've repeated our goal is not to separate Benji from blackwood, but to sperate Benji from hate.

Thank-you Nathan for providing some additional ideas. I was just providing the idea of House bartheld as an option for a higher status green house to foster Ser Wyl, everything of course would have to be OKed by various Lord's before we could move on it

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Benjicot doesn't need to leave his family to be taught not to hate. He was already being taught better when he was at Hartshorn.

Yes, Ben is a separate PC, but we do talk about things in our house forum and by pm.

My reference to trying to manipulate Ben was also IC. Making speeches at him after Corrine left. If you lot had actually meant to say X, then that should have been said to Corrine, instead if the Z that was actually said and was thoughtless and insulting. If you guys wanted her co-operation, you went entirely the wrong way about it. You can't expect me to not play my character just because it doesn't suit your agenda.

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