Re: Crime and punishment (discussing how to mete out punishm

[Baelon Drakeson]

Let us see what the votes and draft do. I do belive it should be secret until the paper is presented. As a neutral party sign as witness of veracity on it with the Dalefords as the second witness perhaps?

Secret in what sense? Surely not that the seven signatories go alone into a sealed room and don't emerge until they've finalized the document. I rather envision it as a town council meeting: at the front of the room, the seven signatories sit at a table, and in an orderly fashion (ostensibly) proposals can be brought to the floor and debated upon by anyone. That means everyone can be involved in the proceedings, even if they don't get a vote.

Now, if you mean secret from the houses being judged? Oh yes, that is of paramount importance. We don't want anyone to flee.

I'm not sure we need neutral parties to sign. We are supposed to be the neutral parties.

[Theomore Tullison]

That is my understanding as well, Dunstan would be the one officially voting for House Tullison, but he'll have advisers to confer with and partake in discussion. Same with other houses. And I imagine there'll be breaks for people to mingle and try to reach an agreement people are happy with.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Secret in what sense? Surely not that the seven signatories go alone into a sealed room and don't emerge until they've finalized the document. I rather envision it as a town council meeting: at the front of the room, the seven signatories sit at a table, and in an orderly fashion (ostensibly) proposals can be brought to the floor and debated upon by anyone. That means everyone can be involved in the proceedings, even if they don't get a vote.

I presume you mean those who have been directly involved in the investigation (such as Baelon or Nathan).

I don't think you mean that these deliberations would be public.

[Yoren longshore]

Doing this in public might be the most ill adviced decision since sending us here in the first place, perhaps it's the same people profiting from it :?

[Theomore Tullison]

Wouldn't be letting anyone from other houses be present (maybe with a few exception such as Ironrod), no. Only when called in as witnesses.

[Yoren longshore]

Ironrod has to be present, by extension so does the kingsguard knight. Apart from that I'd like a closed meeting, preferably pope-style, although breaks every few hours should be accepted, to cool peoples heads.

[Ereth Redwain]

Now, if you mean secret from the houses being judged? Oh yes, that is of paramount importance. We don't want anyone to flee.

I just meant as additional signatures that could be used to add strength to it perhaps, but yes Secret as only the seven houses investigating and perhaps ironrod to consult on matter of law and witnesses called in as they see fit. Like Yoren says, like when they chose a pope, with break between each of the investigations. This can give a chance to people to influence others during the break.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Ironrod has to be present, by extension so does the kingsguard knight.

I see no reason they have to be present for the deliberations/voting.

[Reader]

Ironrod has to be present, by extension so does the kingsguard knight.

I see no reason they have to be present for the deliberations/voting.

They don't have to be.

Noble houses involved present plus special guests as requested (witnesses, friends, advisers).

[Yoren longshore]

He's the master of law. He's here to oversee this, he doesn't have to be included, but he really should.

[Reader]

He's the master of law. He's here to oversee this, he doesn't have to be included, but he really should.

He's here to oversee the final delivery of the treaty and will have a personal opinion on matters, but he doesn't need to be involved in drafting and wasn't granted a vote in the royal proclamation.

If there's one thing a man called "
Ironrod"
is about, it's following the rules (occasionally favouring the Greens and Andal traditionalism, but only if he can justify it to his true loyalty: the rules. "
This is not 'nam, players. There are rules"
.)

[Yoren longshore]

He shouldn't have a vote, but I think he should be there to oversee what's going on. Essentially he should be the fly on the wall.

[Reader]

He shouldn't have a vote, but I think he should be there to oversee what's going on. Essentially he should be the fly on the wall.

You can report back proceedings back to him even if the others aren't keen for him to enter. He won't force the issue, but appreciates being kept in the loop.

[Baelon Drakeson]

He shouldn't have a vote, but I think he should be there to oversee what's going on. Essentially he should be the fly on the wall.

Well, I suppose that's up to Corrine, she has the final say on these matters.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Corrine will most likely consider our rulings to be sufficient. If Ironrod wanted something altered, he'd have to make a case and have it win a vote.

The Houses being judged will not be included in the discussions and voting. However, a representative of Houses Bracken, Blackwood, and Darry should be present for the reading and signing of the treaty.

[Yoren longshore]

Wylde shouldn't be allowed to vote, but given that he's basically the supreme justice of this setting, I am not seeing why he shouldn't be sllowed to see the procedure...

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

He's not going to be allowed to vote. That's what I was saying. We will all vote on the treaty wording, then he gets to have a look and give his thoughts, which we are within our remit to ignore if we disagree.

[Reader]

He's not going to be allowed to vote. That's what I was saying. We will all vote on the treaty wording, then he gets to have a look and give his thoughts, which we are within our remit to ignore if we disagree.

Marsten heads the delegation (as those who rolled well at the event's outset know from the clues in the royal letter) and what they say goes here. They carry the king's authority.

The perks (and responsibility) of having high influence and the Blacks scoring higher in Story 1.

However, when one door closes another opens: a chance for Yoren to curry favour with Lord Wylde by reporting proceedings to him.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Just a thought, I think we could probably get the IC ball rolling on the negotiations.

I was thinking of writing up a proposed peace treaty too, but that is really a separate document with separate constraints (namely, it is more important for Bracken and Blackwood to agree to it than all of us). Here are the items I was thinking of putting into it, but I think more is needed... Notably, I have two Brackens going to Raventree Hall, but no Blackwoods going in the reverse.

1) Ser Myles Blackwood to wed Kerry Bracken
2) Brother Kyle (formerly Ser Kyle Bracken) to be appointed as a tutor to Lord Benjicot Blackwood, on the condition that he make no attempt to convert the child from the Old Gods.
3) On the anniversary of the signing of the treaty, a tournament is to be thrown (at a neutral site somewhere) celebrating the peace;
costs to be split by the houses. Tourney to include special competitions between Bracken and Blackwood champions to resolve any grievances throughout the year. Tourney to be held annually henceforth.

Here is the most recent draft of the crime &
punishment doc, don't think I changed it from the last one... not perfect but good enough to be a starting point.

We the undersigned, acting upon the authority granted unto our represented houses by His Grace, King Viserys Targaryen, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Protector of the Realm, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Defender of the Realm, do hereby declare that the following is a true and accurate accounting of crimes committed by Houses Bracken and Blackwood, and a fair and just punishment to be meted out for the same.

I. Crimes

Let it be known that these crimes were investigated by representatives of the houses of Marsten, Bartheld, Coldbrook, Dulver, Kytley, Longshore, and Tullison:

Ser Steffon Vance and Ser Rufus Bracken, with the aid of various lesser men, did without the foreknowledge, consent, or authorization of their superiors plot and execute the assassination of Lord Bryan Blackwood and his wife, the Lady Reina.

Maester Arran of House Blackwood, without the foreknowledge, consent, or authorization of his superiors, did poison the well of the village of Blackbuckle, ending countless innocent lives as well as the lives of various Bracken soldiers and torturers, for the purpose of ending the suffering of Blackwood soldiers held captive and tormented there.

Both House Bracken and House Blackwood did fortify their respective iron mines, depriving the crown of vital resources for the war in the Stepstones. Upon attack by House Bracken, soldiers of House Blackwood did fire the supports of the Blackwood mines in an attempt to render the Bracken attack profitless.

House Bracken soldiers, acting dishonorably without the foreknowledge, consent, or authorization of their superiors, did attack a merchant caravan from Dorne for the purpose of personal profit.

Ser Tyron Blackwood did lead a regiment of Blackwood cavalry in the salting of fields in the vicinity of Warrior’s Seat.

Bandits in the employ of Ser Olyvar Lucas did sack the Septry at Battle Valley, falsely bearing the arms of House Blackwood and thereby did wrong to House Blackwood, House Bracken, and the Faith of the Seven.

Both House Bracken and House Blackwood did violate the borders of their lands with House Darry, with Ser Tyron Blackwood using Darry lands as a point of refuge and staging ground for attacks and Ser Wyll Bracken, pursuing his attackers, did cause damage to Darry lands and holdings.

Lord Benjicot Blackwood, having recently been orphaned, did in his grief and youthful impulsiveness order an attack from under a flag of mourning upon Bracken troops.


II. Punishments

The following have been determined to be appropriate punishments for the aforementioned crimes.

II.A. Punishments levied upon House Bracken and House Blackwood.

Each of House Bracken and House Blackwood shall send forth a member of high position [Status 4+] to join the Night’s Watch as a symbolic act of contrition and forgiveness-seeking. As perpetrators of various crimes listed above, it is the strong recommendation of the representatives that Ser Steffon Vance and Ser Tyron Blackwood fulfill this obligation, and thereby be forgiven of their crimes, obviating the .

No less than one quarter of each houses’ revenue income shall be spent on reconstruction, repair and maintenance of lands and holdings, for a period of no less than ten years or until the lands and holdings of the house have been restored. [25% of House Fortune income must be for Lands, Population, or Wealth (only if earmarked for the relevant holdings)]

No less that one quarter of each houses’ revenue income, plus any remainder from the previous item after a house’s lands and holdings have been repaired or rebuilt, shall be spent on internal peacekeeping efforts, for a period of no less than ten years. [50% of House Fortune income must be for Law or for the previous item, no less than 25% towards Law]

All revenues from the Bracken iron mine and the adjacent Blackwood iron mine, including the vein of crystal discovered therein during the investigation, shall be used to refund the generous donations of coin and services made by outside parties in this time of crisis, for a period of no less than two years;
income from these mines for the following three years shall be granted to the Crown. [Game mechanics effects at Reader’s discretion]

II.B. Punishments levied against individuals

Ser Steffon Vance shall be executed in a manner determined by Lord Haig Bracken.

Maester Arran shall be executed in a manner determined by Lord Benjicot Blackwood’s regent, Ser Myles Blackwood. It is the recommendation of the representatives that the Citadel of Oldtown posthumously strip Maester Arran of his chain, and provide a new Maester of good character and peaceful disposition to House Blackwood.

Ser Tyron Blackwood shall turn over one half of the revenue income of his lands to House Bracken for a period of no less than three years, and his son, Jojen Blackwood, will be made ward and squire to Lord Haig Bracken.

Ser Olyvar Lucas shall serve as Warden of the Sept at Battle Valley for a period of no less than three years, living among the Brothers and receiving no incomes for his service. Any incomes earned by other means shall be donated to the Sept at Battle Valley to be used as alms for the unfortunate.

Lord Benjicot Blackwood, having shown remorse for his crime and on account of his age, shall be forgiven with no further punishments.

[Reader]

You're free to impose/negotiate a peace treaty too.

[Ereth Redwain]

Pretty nice draft and lenient, and I think most will accept with little objections, if not add a thing or two.

Great job Baelon.

[Yoren longshore]

Should Corrine call for the assembly? Or could Yoren do it without anybody taking offence?

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Lol...pretty sure it should be the marstens.

[Yoren longshore]

Impatient Yoren strikes again

[Reader]

Impatient Yoren strikes again

I see it as commitment to the game and a desire to see justice done.

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