Re: Game Discussion

[Nathaniel Mason]

#cold shower

Let's see if I can write a XXX sex scene in PG13 words. I love a challenge.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

#cold shower

Let's see if I can write a XXX sex scene in PG13 words.  I love a challenge.

Patton Oswalt does a very funny bit about being asked to do that when writing for sitcoms.

[Loreia]

https://dragonsdance.rpg-board.net/t3152-outside-the-grand-ball-closed#94920

Hey Darron, I was using "little" as one might belittle the gap in age between them and the recipient, not the height. It still works though, if your PC is getting huffy about age and thinking of height as an equalizer. She's going by looks to tell how old he is, but OOC they're almost a decade apart.

[Darron Greyjoy]

Ah right got it. Darron would be about 18 during that period.

[Reader]

Reasonable chance of this one turning in to a farce:

https://dragonsdance.rpg-board.net/t3214-sf-lane-3-4-lord-baelon-drakeson-vs-ser-theomore-tullison

I'll note that Baelon is at least mixing up his tactics, so below is not necessarily how it plays out, but....

If we go with Baelon running Defensive 2:
= 10d6k4-2 = 6.97% of hitting 1 DoS with a 1.07% chance Theomore fails to stay in the saddle at 6d6k4-1 = 0.074579% chance to unhorse Theomore per pass

Theomore running Defensive 2:
= 9d6k4-1 = 14.41% chance of 1 DoS with a 0.72% chance Baelon fails to stay in the saddle = 0.103752% chance to unhorse Baelon per passs

To make matters worse, both participants have lucky and can re-roll their miniscule chance to fail their stay in the saddle roll. It will take a ludicrous number of lances for either man to unhorse the other, or a very long odds result.

https://dragonsdance.rpg-board.net/t3214-sf-lane-3-4-lord-baelon-drakeson-vs-ser-theomore-tullison

I suggest:
- people flag if there are any more restricted use abilities they want to try triggering and deploy them swiftly.
- some way of resolving this in character if the players can agree.
- I could theoretically just calculate this as a ratio and allow the joust to continue for an infinite duration but that offends my sense of verisimilitude.
- Lord Coldbrook intercedes after twenty lances and suggests finishing things on foot. This favours the more versatile of the PCs (Baelon), albeit he's on home territory and is ahead 3v1 on DoS after 4 passes each.
- Run it to twenty lances and compare DoS at that point.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

It does seem like there should be a way, in-character, to resolve jousts 'by points' in the event that neither combatant can unhorse one another in a given number of passes.

[Darron Greyjoy]

Someone could always try and cheat

[Reader]

It does seem like there should be a way, in-character, to resolve jousts 'by points' in the event that neither combatant can unhorse one another in a given number of passes.

Indeed. That's why I set best of three, with lances broken, then DoS, then Lord Tully/Ser Fredryk Vance deciding in Riverrun.

https://dragonsdance.rpg-board.net/t623-day-4-all-afternoon-the-joust-now-complete

This didn't have any predetermined limits that I can spot. Unforunately, just remembered this is the Drakeson tourney not the Coldbrook one, so it'll probably be a chanting crowd demanding swords or a quartermaster noting there's a risk of running short of lances. No independent authority figure present.

Very open to suggestions on cheating/using once a day abilities etc.

[Aerion Storm]

I know, traditionally, there's been a limit of how many lances are gone through before things are settled afoot (or by judges watching, or what-have-you). I think we already had a pretty impressive number of lances shattered in some earlier rounds at that very tourney, though, didn't we?

[Reader]

I know, traditionally, there's been a limit of how many lances are gone through before things are settled afoot (or by judges watching, or what-have-you).  I think we already had a pretty impressive number of lances shattered in some earlier rounds at that very tourney, though, didn't we?

Indeed, that's a feature of the text. Swords on foot or a decision from the judges. Setting a limit of twenty on this one as a limit wasn't set beforehand.

Fourteen is probably reasonable normally (with rolls beyond round 4 being done in a batch).

[Jon Templeton]

Between Aerion and Forrest Frey Jon personally broke 22 lances iirc.

[Aerion Storm]

Yeah, but it was 11 each, not 22 each, at least. So we'd've kept below the retconned 14-lance limit.

[Reader]

Retcon magic.

Btw, anyone who uses any of the crown/jester emojis in character gets banned (in part because they fail to capture Mushroom's majesty).

[Baelon Drakeson]

Reasonable chance of this one turning in to a farce

I think it started as an allegory, but yeah, it's turning into a farce.

Really, it highlights something I've been thinking for a while - joust defenses are too easy to maximize. Compared to melee or intrigue, it's based off a single attribute instead of three, and that attribute has a multiplicative effect rather than a linear one. That attribute ALSO adds a significant number of bonus dice to the attack, is the basis for lance damage and is the attribute used to stay in the saddle. Jousting is not a single attribute activity (you still need Fighting), but it is far more so than most. On top of that it is one of the most profitable competitions out there, and is often used as a way to resolve disputes. In short, Animal Handling becomes one of the most useful attributes for knightly types, second only to Fighting.

I'm not sure how best to fix it, or if we really can fix it at this point.... but I do see it as a problem.

I suggest:
- people flag if there are any more restricted use abilities they want to try triggering and deploy them swiftly.
- some way of resolving this in character if the players can agree.
- I could theoretically just calculate this as a ratio and allow the joust to continue for an infinite duration but that offends my sense of verisimilitude.
- Lord Coldbrook intercedes after twenty lances and suggests finishing things on foot. This favours the more versatile of the PCs (Baelon), albeit he's on home territory and is ahead 3v1 on DoS after 4 passes each.
- Run it to twenty lances and compare DoS at that point.

Any of those are reasonable, though I share your dislike for the third option.

It does seem like there should be a way, in-character, to resolve jousts 'by points' in the event that neither combatant can unhorse one another in a given number of passes.

There usually is, and it's my fault that it wasn't in place at our tourney. Usually we'll just roll three passes and compare DoS. However, it was getting to the point that most of the interesting jousts were settled by points, and we have stories in the books about knights going 8 or 10 passes against a noted jouster, and that being a laudable feat unto itself. I wanted to allow for that, and yeah, it's happened but, so is this.

Someone could always try and cheat

That was discussed. It wouldn't end well for the cheater, for a variety of reasons.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Unforunately, just remembered this is the Drakeson tourney not the Coldbrook one, so it'll probably be a chanting crowd demanding swords or a quartermaster noting there's a risk of running short of lances. No independent authority figure present.

No, but Lord Forrest is present and is an authority over Theo and a friend of Baelon. He might not be able to command an alternate resolution, but should he suggest one I think it would carry sufficient weight.

[Reader]

Good point on Lord Frey. If you're both ok with that let's call it at 14, a holy number.

I MAY consider setting passive ride to 3x (not keen, but made things more dramatic in Southron ambitions) or introduce -1 to the passive ride and/or stay in the saddle rolls (feels better) past tilt 3. That kind of thing can't really be introduced int he middle of a tilt however.

[Jon Templeton]

Good point on Lord Frey. If you're both ok with that let's call it at 14, a holy number.

Frey vs Jon made it to 14th pass.

Frey (bad RP), "No one shall go past 14, tis a holy number!" No one will last longer than me. /snickers

[Aerion Storm]

FWIW, as far as Animal Handling being OP goes, I disagree. I know as soon as I'm not on horseback with Aerion, that's all wasted points; Animal Handling certainly doesn't help my combat defense, my specializations (including Tournaments itself) that help in a tourney don't let me use a bigger shield or give me bonus dice to hit with my sword, and the points I poured into getting Animal Handling up so high don't go towards Endurance to let me last longer in a fight or anything (End 4 being quite a bit better than End 3 for damage mitigation, for instance, both because it does more and you can use it more times).

I mean, yeah. You're gonna shine in the joust...but...shouldn't you, if that's what your character is built for?

I know my system mastery doesn't match, well, anybody else's, yet. But with my admittedly limited experience, and looking at it from my admittedly unique perspective, the points it takes to be really good on top of a horse are all, well, basically wasted as soon as you're doing literally anything else at all.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Good point on Lord Frey. If you're both ok with that let's call it at 14, a holy number.

Frey vs Jon made it to 14th pass.

Frey (bad RP), "No one shall go past 14, tis a holy number!" No one will last longer than me. /snickers

"One, two, five!"
"Three Sir!"

[Darron Greyjoy]

AH is pretty godly for a combat character to my understanding as it does let you use a bigger shield due to bulk not effecting the horse only you and it does give you bonuses to hit with your sword assuming its trained for war ontop of the bonus for fighting ground troops. I think a good example would be the Dulver duel. If Walton wasnt such a godly character he would be in trouble. I know Darron probably would have lost that. Then again Darron would have just tried to kill the horse as fuck noble antics.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Good point on Lord Frey. If you're both ok with that let's call it at 14, a holy number.

I'm good with that.

I MAY consider setting passive ride to 3x (not keen, but made things more dramatic in Southron ambitions) or introduce -1 to the passive ride and/or stay in the saddle rolls (feels better) past tilt 3. That kind of thing can't really be introduced int he middle of a tilt however.

Hmm. A here are a few other ideas you could consider:
- Every 3 passes take a fatigue. if you are maxed on fatigue, take an injury (favors those with high endurance). Also lowers attack rolls though, so may be self-defeating.
- A 0 DoS "hit" (i.e. non-critical miss) does no damage but forces a TN 6 Stay in Saddle. Combine with the above, perhaps.
- Give the option not to "charge" in the mechanical sense. Getting rid of the -1D charge penalty would make a big difference, and add a new tactical option.
- Tourney Knight applies to Stay in Saddle tests rather than Passive Ride (right now Tourney Knight is completely negated against a Tourney Knight of the same magnitude).

Frey vs Jon made it to 14th pass.

Frey (bad RP), "No one shall go past 14, tis a holy number!" No one will last longer than me. /snickers

Heh, I could definitely see that... though probably not for him.

[Reader]

Yeah, I'm inclined to simply start setting passive ride -1 post pass 3 (cumulative). Stops things going on forever without monkeying about with passive rolls. Smallest change to achieve the desired outcome. Conscious of the concerns of those who've built specialist jousters and don't want to lose their precious passive ride points! Theomore and Aerion seem scary in a joust, but lots of the other PCs would do pretty well against them in a swordfight.

Thanks for the alternative suggestions Baelon, quick run through of reasons for rejecting...
TN6 on non-critical miss - very easy to pass, doesn't shift the maths much.
Every 3 passes = 1 fatigue. Stacks too much fatigue (which persists, prefer my temporary solution.
No charging - too big a change v core rules.
Tourney knight - happy with it as it is. Not many people have taken it, don't want to make it worse.

Wish Lord Frey wasn't so gallant, otherwise I'd totally go with Jon's suggestion of him pulling rank at his own number.

[Loreia]

AH is pretty godly for a combat character to my understanding as it does let you use a bigger shield due to bulk not effecting the horse only you and it does give you bonuses to hit with your sword assuming its trained for war ontop of the bonus for fighting ground troops. I think a good example would be the Dulver duel. If Walton wasnt such a godly character he would be in trouble. I know Darron probably would have lost that. Then again Darron would have just tried to kill the horse as fuck noble antics.

You should think carefully before choosing to do that in a duel, though. Even in war, and especially not if you elect to remain on two feet. As a base creature, mount has no quarrel with it's rider's opponent, and no understanding of the higher thought behind two people choosing to duel one another. It's not a sentiment limited to the perspective of nobles. In war though, and maybe in duel sprung upon you without challenge while your two feet are on the ground, go right ahead. A fighter's enemy can't expect him to treat his mount as anything other than an asset in wartime that one can use against the other.

[Baelon Drakeson]

How I would handle a mounted opponent while not mounted:
Greater Action: "Pulling a Rider from a Mount" (the actual, though inelegant, name in the book)
Take Fatigue for lesser action
Lesser Action: Mount horse

Not only do you deny them the benefits of being mounted, you get those benefits yourself - and a free horse.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

Pff... Kill the guy, mount him on wagon and send back to family.

[Sponsored content]