Re: Mechanical discussion

[Nathaniel Mason]

Ok.

Wow, I have a skill at 1, which seems mad, since it would actually be better if I didn't have it at all. :\

As I have already shown, even with a skill of 1 you can be successful provided the difficulty is 6 or less.

[Reader]

Yeah. Co-ordinate is extremely powerful. I have a character with 5 Will 3B Co-ordinate. He regularly adds +10 to rolls. It's certainly strong in comparison to Aid (which I have always viewed as kinda weak.)

We mitigated it slightly by ruling that only someone with the Co-ordinate specialty can make Co-ordinate rolls and that all three of the people testing must be PCs. (No NPCs or Cohorts.)

I have no strong opinions either way on this subject. I would only say that I cannot remember anyone using a Co-ordinate in our seven months of play, so it hasn't been a heavy unbalancing factor up to this point.

I've stepped in to stop several uses of coordinate, which may have contributed to this.

Big thumbs up to Nathaniel for hitting a TN 6 on 1d6 with some crafty benefit use.

[Yoren longshore]

Don't we have a rule of against it already? maybe that was just for the guy who gives plus 20 on it
Seriously though, I still think it's way too good compared to assist, assist is a plus 2 unless you are among the best in westeros at it. Coordinate should maybe just become better the more people it is? Unless me with 5 will will still give sonebody an additional dos.

Edit: ninjad by Reader, now I know about that my question is answered Reader reads minds too

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Ok.

Wow, I have a skill at 1, which seems mad, since it would actually be better if I didn't have it at all. :\

As I have already shown, even with a skill of 1 you can be successful provided the difficulty is 6 or less.

And if you are prepared to get utterly filthy. :;
):

[Nathaniel Mason]

I've stepped in to stop several uses of coordinate, which may have contributed to this.

Big thumbs up to Nathaniel for hitting a TN 6 on 1d6 with some crafty benefit use.

Thanks! (Although perhaps Orokos deserves just as much credit.)

As far as Co-ordinate. We have a strong supernatural theme going on in that game, so Co-ordinate does help with those supernatural difficulty rolls. (TN 30!)

In this game that is not an issue, although if you get rid of it completely, I might bump Aid (especially if it is capped). I have always thought that Aid should be rank rather than half rank.

I would say that if you feel strongly enough against Co-ordinate that you have stepped in to prevent it's use, then removing it completely is probably the best option and just have anyone who has invested in the specialty simply spend the xp elsewhere.

[Yoren longshore]

Once you manage a DC 30 the only thing that you should do is to laminate that character!

[Nathaniel Mason]

Once you manage a DC 30 the only thing that you should do is to laminate that character!

Remember that's not one PC managing a DC 30. That's three.


Ahem...

[url=Convince haigh of friendly intentions][/url]: 9d6k6+2 30

[Baelon Drakeson]

I would say that if you feel strongly enough against Co-ordinate that you have stepped in to prevent it's use, then removing it completely is probably the best option and just have anyone who has invested in the specialty simply spend the xp elsewhere.

I completely disagree - in most cases I suspect the Will investment was (in part, at least) for purposes above and beyond coordinate. Plus, the opportunity cost of having spent that XP on will/coordinate means the characters suffered in comparison for their choices. Better to come up with a functional use for coordinate.

Once you manage a DC 30 the only thing that you should do is to laminate that character!

It's been done in this game, and without assists or coordinate. A lucky roll keeping at least 5 dice is all you need.
That's a big reason for capping DoS at 4 - it means that there is an upper limit to effectiveness no matter how many dice you can throw at a problem.
Of course, hitting a TN30 and being able to hit it consistently are two very different things, too.

[Reader]

Once you manage a DC 30 the only thing that you should do is to laminate that character!

Remember that's not one PC managing a DC 30. That's three.


Ahem...

[url=Convince haigh of friendly intentions][/url]: 9d6k6+2 30

I'll aim to get Yoren's new PC approved by Saturday. :;
):

Thoughts on the below welcome.

Tentative coordinate solution:

TN 12, but Coordinate adds 1/2 will +1 per additional DoS.

- Makes it better than a regular assist and more versatile (a strong will lets you assist strongly with every ability)

[Baelon Drakeson]

Tentative coordinate solution:

TN 12, but Coordinate adds 1/2 will +1 per additional DoS.

- Makes it better than a regular assist and more versatile (a strong will lets you assist strongly with every ability)

I think that is reasonable.
For anyone with 3 Will and no coordinate, Assist is strictly better, unless there are already two assists involved (at which point it lets an additional person be involved without being overpowering - unlikely to be more than a +1 and a very lucky roll will only yield a +2).
For anyone with a 4 will it is a usable option that offers higher benefits at the risk of no benefit.
For anyone with a 4 or 5 will and specialty dice, it will almost always be better than an assist, which is fair considering the xp investment.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Tentative coordinate solution:

TN 12, but Coordinate adds 1/2 will +1 per additional DoS.

- Makes it better than a regular assist and more versatile (a strong will lets you assist strongly with every ability)

I would still like to see the the TN 9 in non-combat situations and TN 12 in combat.

Co-ordinating in the heat of battle would be inherently more difficult.

[Reader]

Good point. Restored it to 9/12 in house rule post.

[Loreia]

Yaaaay!

[Theomore Tullison]

I've had this house rule on co-ordinate before:

On a success, those who assist may add their full ability rank, up to the ability rank of the one doing the co-ordination.

It's not like Will doesn't have other uses.

[Luecian LongBow]

I was going to echo Theo's post, since this is technically a conflict roll- even burning a point should not guarantee the top roll. Correct? Perhaps if they do not get the top roll, the party burning the DP stumbles upon the mate and kills it instead?

[OOC: a PC is BURNING a destiny point to automatically hit the top TN.

I applaud this kind of dramatic use of destiny points but also wish to allow opportunities to those keen to use abilities they've invested in.

What does all the above mean?

The player burning the destiny point gets what he/she was after, but perhaps the Silver Shadowcat had an equally impressive mate that has emerged for the spring mating season, for other players keen to risk rolling against the top TN....]

[Well, actually, by RAW, that destiny burning means you automatically score 18, so if someone came along and snagged a 19...though luck for you.]

[Reader]

[The existence of the mate specifically addresses the risk of "
wasting"
a DP by burning it only to get beaten on the roll. The player burning a DP gets the Silver Shadowcat and I've got a spare with my narrator powers.]

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I was going to echo Theo's post, since this is technically a conflict roll- even burning a point should not guarantee the top roll. Correct? Perhaps if they do not get the top roll, the party burning the DP stumbles upon the mate and kills it instead?

[OOC: a PC is BURNING a destiny point to automatically hit the top TN.

I applaud this kind of dramatic use of destiny points but also wish to allow opportunities to those keen to use abilities they've invested in.

What does all the above mean?

The player burning the destiny point gets what he/she was after, but perhaps the Silver Shadowcat had an equally impressive mate that has emerged for the spring mating season, for other players keen to risk rolling against the top TN....]

[Well, actually, by RAW, that destiny burning means you automatically score 18, so if someone came along and snagged a 19...though luck for you.]

It's ok, don't panic. I've made the choice with full knowledge of the risk involved, after much thought.

[Reader]

Southron ambitions ran with the harsher risk of burning for nothing, but I'm slightly easier going than the (excellent) narrator of that game.

Sadly there's not a carebear emoticon.

[Theomore Tullison]

I would consider it totally legitimate to burn it conditionally on that nobody rolls high enough on survival to get it (on a draw, I'd presume there'd be a reroll or hunt specialties as tie breakers, which likely favors whoever manages to get 18 by normal means).

Generally, I believe in following rules, and not change them on the fly without good reason to. I don't see a good reason to do so here.

Though I'll note that while the SA narrator was an excellent storyteller, his grasp of the mechanics is not something I would use as a baseline comparison for anything.

[Reader]

I would consider it totally legitimate to burn it conditionally on that nobody rolls high enough on survival to get it (on a draw, I'd presume there'd be a reroll or hunt specialties as tie breakers, which likely favors whoever manages to get 18 by normal means).

Generally, I believe in following rules, and not change them on the fly without good reason to. I don't see a good reason to do so here.

Though I'll note that while the SA narrator was an excellent storyteller, his grasp of the mechanics is not something I would use as a baseline comparison for anything.

I'm all about bleeding destiny points for cool moments, plus I'd like a scene where one hunter saves the other!

My vision is that the DP burning player goes in to claim the kill while the vengeful female shadowcat readies itself to pounce, an arrow whistling past the first hunter to strike the second shadowcat!

[Theomore Tullison]

Well, when you put it that way.....

On a sidenote, I'll be saving my DP bbq for the moment when Theomore needs to pull a karma-houdini.

[Luecian LongBow]

I think burning the dp, should put them in a specific roll result(18) to accomplish the goal. I think the highest roll should still acquire the original wily silver shadowcat but the burning of the dp allows the player to locate the silver shadowcat's mate and still bring home an equally impressive kill rather than the other way around. That way the player still is protected from getting something for their usage(as that seems to be the intent) but it does not seem like an automatic I win button if a conflicted roll is still higher. From a numbers standpoint it might not differ but to me it gives a different impression. /shrug, just my two cents...

[Reader]

Well, when you put it that way.....

On a sidenote, I'll be saving my DP bbq for the moment when Theomore needs to pull a karma-houdini.

You'll need a lot of those to balance out all the negative karma from your Magnificent Bastardry. :;
):

I'll let the player debate which of you two kills which shadowcat, mechanics don't matter too much. If it happens it will be a fine way for the two players to meet!

Burnt DP sets the roll to 18 (well, technically player should then roll and choose between 18 and roll+5 from burnt DP), with higher roll choosing who gets which shadowcat, if people really care...

Now go roll them bones and get me a scene worthy of all this kerfuffle.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I think burning the dp, should put them in a specific roll result(18) to accomplish the goal. I think the highest roll should still acquire the original wily silver shadowcat but the burning of the dp allows the player to locate the silver shadowcat's mate and still bring home an equally impressive kill rather than the other way around. That way the player still is protected from getting something for their usage(as that seems to be the intent) but it does not seem like an automatic I win button if a conflicted roll is still higher. From a numbers standpoint it might not differ but to me it gives a different impression. /shrug, just my two cents...

That seems reasonable to me. Nobody is likely to know until afterwards who got which one anyway, since nobody IC knows about there being more than one.

As Reader has suggested above, I'll do the roll and choose between 18 and the roll +5. I'll update my post shortly.

I honestly don't think which shadowcat is which matters terribly much. If they're both of equal size and colouring, I suppose the male has a bit more prestige, but I'm not desperate to get the absolute pinnacle. I just want a silver shadowcat pelt, some glory, and Lord Bracken's approval, hehe. And if both cats have the same mechanical effect, I don't mind which I get, and I agree that having it be an rp encounter would be cool.

[Kevan Lyras]

So in the end this basically ensures thst we will have another player torturing us with their story how they killed a shadow cat? :;
):

(Just kidding of course Master LongBow, I actually like how the story changes from event to event!)

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