Re: Story/character discussion

[Benedict Marsten]

Generalist is nice, but with the given stats for knights, it may not cut it for someone who is leaning toward combat. I found this out the hard way in BITW.

I do think less houses would be better. Cramming us together will definitely create rp and tensions.

And by the way I was politically minded it just took me awhile to get around to it(it was my first pbb). I arranged for Davains meeting with Harte and assisted in said meeting and was negotiating with Ser Markus to move for allegiances with Marstens. Besides I was chasing a certain maiden(a character goal).

This is Rykk by the way. Hello to everyone!

[Baelon Drakeson]

Generalist is nice, but with the given stats for knights, it may not cut it for someone who is leaning toward combat. I found this out the hard way in BITW.

Generalist combatants can be done. Symon was one, and did well enough. My suggestion would be to find one thing to be a primary focus and one thing to be a secondary. For Symon, that was jousting and wooing, respectively. Being good at other things was of tertiary importance, and tended to flow from those specialties. Being good with a lance meant he was good with a spear (same specialization), and being good at charm made him decent at other forms of persuasion. He couldn't stand up for long against a dedicated melee specialist or a dedicated intrigue specialist, but could hold his own reasonably well against most.

[Benedict Marsten]

Yes. I was looking at knight of quality earlier not the average knight. I think it can be done.

*edit: I think the introduction of a likely need for the warfare skill may stretch a generalized combat PC. That is of course if he intends to lead/command.

[Reader]

Don't worry too much on warfare. You can still participate attached to a unit with only warfare 2!

Warfare 3 only costs 10xp, and even the head of the kingsguard only has warfare 4.

All-rounder are welcome! Your schemers might even help your path in the joust. :;
):

[Jon Cobb]

Main two things why it is important for me to have the Narrators and other players approval to play Dunstan are:

1. English is not my first language, and by playing a Lord longer more complicated posts will probably be required. With Harwyn it was just head smashing, drinking and blind obedience I had in mind. Dunstan, while being Naive and uninterested in intrigue, will be suck into it because of his position and my language skills might or might not affect the quality of posts of that kind.

2. I am fairly new to the game and only played Harwyn and another 2 low born characters, so a lack of experience might influence the quality of my roleplay performance as Dunstan.

I am a very easy going person and if somebody is to say that they would like for Dunstan to continue as NPC if I am not doing the character justice it would not offend or anger me in the slightest, as long as I get to take another character that is:)

I think Dunstan is one of the best written characters in the Chronicle, not least because even his most prominent personality traits are open to interpretation, making it difficult to play him "
wrong"
!

For instance, although Dunstan is naive, he's also described as thoughtful and intelligent, and comes down hard on people who abuse his trust. So, if you don't want to play him as falling for every smooth talker he meets, just consider whether he could plausibly have encountered a similar situation before. If he has, it's perfectly in character to react with suspicion or even hostility to such a person. Dunstan isn't stupid!

Dunstan's lack of interest in women is also a great roleplaying opportunity, because the reason for it is never stated outright. He may be gay, he may be asexual, or he may just be cripplingly shy. If you want things to get really dark, then perhaps he's not disinterested in women in general, but completely obsessed with one woman in particular. Someone forbidden...

Dunstan's craving for adventure is also a roleplaying opportunity. Everyone around him is so busy protecting him that they may actually be preventing him from becoming the great warrior/leader he wants to be. What happens if he manages to get a few wins under his belt - how will that affect him? Will he start to break free from his advisors and how will that affect his relationships with them? Conversely - what would it take to sober him up? Really, there's lots of ways his character could change depending on what happens in the game.

[Dunstan Tullison]

Main two things why it is important for me to have the Narrators and other players approval to play Dunstan are:

1. English is not my first language, and by playing a Lord longer more complicated posts will probably be required. With Harwyn it was just head smashing, drinking and blind obedience I had in mind. Dunstan, while being Naive and uninterested in intrigue, will be suck into it because of his position and my language skills might or might not affect the quality of posts of that kind.

2. I am fairly new to the game and only played Harwyn and another 2 low born characters, so a lack of experience might influence the quality of my roleplay performance as Dunstan.

I am a very easy going person and if somebody is to say that they would like for Dunstan to continue as NPC if I am not doing the character justice it would not offend or anger me in the slightest, as long as I get to take another character that is:)

I think Dunstan is one of the best written characters in the Chronicle, not least because even his most prominent personality traits are open to interpretation, making it difficult to play him "
wrong"
!

For instance, although Dunstan is naive, he's also described as thoughtful and intelligent, and comes down hard on people who abuse his trust. So, if you don't want to play him as falling for every smooth talker he meets, just consider whether he could plausibly have encountered a similar situation before. If he has, it's perfectly in character to react with suspicion or even hostility to such a person. Dunstan isn't stupid!

Dunstan's lack of interest in women is also a great roleplaying opportunity, because the reason for it is never stated outright. He may be gay, he may be asexual, or he may just be cripplingly shy. If you want things to get really dark, then perhaps he's not disinterested in women in general, but completely obsessed with one woman in particular. Someone forbidden...

Dunstan's craving for adventure is also a roleplaying opportunity. Everyone around him is so busy protecting him that they may actually be preventing him from becoming the great warrior/leader he wants to be. What happens if he manages to get a few wins under his belt - how will that affect him? Will he start to break free from his advisors and how will that affect his relationships with them? Conversely - what would it take to sober him up? Really, there's lots of ways his character could change depending on what happens in the game.

Oh yes, changing him in the process as a result of what happens is a big reason why I choose him. Burning a DP in the future to remove the Naive drawback is a likely course of action, what quality will replace it is left to circumstance. I am still thinking on why is he so disinterested in women, but definitely plan to portrait him as such. Will probably bounce a few idea with Reader.
On a different note, one of the details that bother me with Martin are little tributes to other work. Sometimes they can be all good like House Vance for example, but sometimes they stick out, like Lord Kermit Tully - who would be a Riverlander Lord paramount in this time period. Would you guys be ok with renaming him? I wouldn't like to call a prominent NPC Lord Kermit.

[Theomore Tullison]

Dunstan's prime material for character development, aye. The girls thing I always interpreted as him being too busy to pursue glory and such to care, but I think that is a bit too shallow an explanation. His uncle, which likely does serve as inspiration to Dunstan's dreams of glory is certainly not disinterested in girls.

For any new readers, the NC's I'd recommend giving a look would be these:

Yve Tullison and Gwyneth Marsten, ladies with agendas. Neither of them would be for beginners at this sort of thing though (not so much setting, but these two NEEDS to be politically active, so players taking them should know how to do this, or be prepared to learn fast).

Corrine Marsten, ever want to play a sweet innocent thing caught up in the unforgivable machinations of the game of thrones? Here's your chance.
Gareth Stone, there's potential in combination with maester Leopold here, and tapping into Isobel's fears of him. But this one is not an easy task straight out of the box.

Braya Kytley, a schemer of note, you want to stick it to the Frey's, she your woman.
Maester Thomnas is also a schemer of sorts, but not of the intrigue variety, though more against the Mallisters.

Ser Walton Dulver is an apt candidate for a more knightly type, first and foremost because of the conflicted relationship with his father, which provides something more than just fighting ability.

Not recommended for the novices are Davain Bartheld and Ayleth Swann (now only Davain's bethrothed, and in a little pm to the narrator, she may now become a Targaryen), these two holds immense potential, but probably among the most challenging pre-gens to play. Forget about taking these two out of the box and start playing, you'll need to make them your own.

Finally in the Bartheld Camp would be Ser Corbin Celtigar, the womanizer knight with a crush on Ayleth. A different spin on the noble warrior.

Then heading over to the coldbrooks, we have Alianna that schemes for her own son to take power. Garret which is a bit of hedonistic self-indulgent bastard (literally) that gives up on the game of thrones. And lastly Daveth, which actually is a schemer/diplomancer that is a nice chap with nice goals, for a change.

Of note with Coldbrooks is that I submitted a suggestion to a tweaked backstory that does change quite a lot of things, although it does very little to alter their present situation, it has some serious impact on how it came to be.

I'd pass over the other pre-gens in favor of something self-made, personally, but each taste be their own.

[Reader]

Zorbeltuss - thanks for the Narrator character summary. I'll be using this in my posts advertising the game (with credit!).

Dunstan - on your worries over the in-joke names: I think you'll find that's a typographical error in the maester's history, and as everyone knows the current lord is Kennet Tully. :;
):

Rax- great post on Dunstan's potential. Brainstorming like this is good.

[Baelon Drakeson]

On a different note, one of the details that bother me with Martin are little tributes to other work. Sometimes they can be all good like House Vance for example, but sometimes they stick out, like Lord Kermit Tully - who would be a Riverlander Lord paramount in this time period. Would you guys be ok with renaming him? I wouldn't like to call a prominent NPC Lord Kermit.

While Lord Kermit was in fact named after the muppet (as are his relatives Elmo and Grover), All three are actual names, though not in common use anymore.
When Kermit the Frog was named, Kermit was a much more common name, and there are at least three different people that the muppet is claimed to have been named after.
Teddy Roosevelt's second son was named Kermit.

I would prefer not to change it, but if there is strong disagreement I will yield.

EDIT: or if Reader says so. :;
):

[Reader]

I also considered "
Dermot"
, as it's another real name the maester could have misheard, but thought Kennet would serve a similar purpose for play by post.

[Jon Cobb]

I do agree with Dunstan that Kermit is jarring to modern sensibilities. I grew up with the Muppets, so I really can't disassociate the name from the friendly green frog... :mrgreen:

And if we're voting on alternate names, I think I prefer Dermot over Kennet. Some of Martin's naming conventions just don't do it for me.

[Theomore Tullison]

I suggest the "
cast of player characters"
thread just made should be more of an unofficial thing, so that people can throw up things that aren't final or quite ready yet.

[Reader]

Thanks for getting that thread going guys. I'll pin it later. We can use the original post for official approvals.

[Baelon Drakeson]

I suggest the "
cast of player characters"
thread just made should be more of an unofficial thing, so that people can throw up things that aren't final or quite ready yet.

Thanks for getting that thread going guys. I'll pin it later. We can use the original post for official approvals.

I figured that this thread or the [url=character creation workshop][/url] thread would be for working out ideas prior to appoval, which is why I set up the other thread as a place for approved characters.

[Jon Cobb]

Question - which Status table are we using to peg status levels? P. 45 or p. 67? I'm a fan of p. 67 myself, since it provides a little more flexibility.

[Reader]

Generally p67, with a bit of flexibility. Happy to take questions on appropriate status.

[Dunstan Tullison]

Question - which Status table are we using to peg status levels? P. 45 or p. 67? I'm a fan of p. 67 myself, since it provides a little more flexibility.

I always thought the p45 one is if you want to create a random character by rolling up the dice, and the p67 for reference when setting a status yourself.
Hope this is not too confusing. Had a similar debate with my rl group, and thats what makes the most sense to me.

[Theomore Tullison]

Generally, the 45 is the most simplistic. 67 is the more comprehensive, but the moment you start using house mechanics, it's the one on 107 that's supposed to be used, but you'd have to complement it with the 67 for positions such as maester and sworn sword.

It's confusing, so best bet is to put the burden on reader to apply some sort of judgement of what fits where. I'd consider making a table specific for this game to clear it all up.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

So, I just wanted to say that in the Princess Arrives thread, I think Gwyn is perfectly visible there. And talking to Garrett SNOW, OMG!!

(^_^)

Just saying...they haven't ducked out of sight or anything. It's a parallel thread, their conversation, just to keep us from spamming the main thread.

[Benedict Marsten]

So, I just wanted to say that in the Princess Arrives thread, I think Gwyn is perfectly visible there. And talking to Garrett SNOW, OMG!!

(^_^)

Just saying...they haven't ducked out of sight or anything. It's a parallel thread, their conversation, just to keep us from spamming the main thread.

The confusion then is the "
(closed)"
at he end of the timeslot title, which generally means not open to other pcs to post.

[Baelon Drakeson]

So, I just wanted to say that in the Princess Arrives thread, I think Gwyn is perfectly visible there. And talking to Garrett SNOW, OMG!!

(^_^)

Just saying...they haven't ducked out of sight or anything. It's a parallel thread, their conversation, just to keep us from spamming the main thread.

The confusion then is the "
(closed)"
at he end of the timeslot title, which generally means not open to other pcs to post.

Indeed, I generally take (closed) threads to be out of sight/hearing of other characters by default. In this case, I was treating it as though you are effectively hidden in the crowd, even if that was not your intent.

[Theomore Tullison]

[closed] generally means, at least IMO, that this particular bit of story should not involve other characters than those specifically invited to take part. Does not mean that these characters are alone. Could well be a conversation taking place during a feast or other event with many people seeing them and possibly overhearing.

[Baelon Drakeson]

[closed] generally means, at least IMO, that this particular bit of story should not involve other characters than those specifically invited to take part. Does not mean that these characters are alone. Could well be a conversation taking place during a feast or other event with many people seeing them and possibly overhearing.

I guess I was unclear - it's not that a (closed) thread is unseeable or unhearable, but rather that my assumption is that Baelon does not know the content of the thread in normal circumstances - that's not to say that he couldn't eavesdrop on the conversation, but I would expect to have to make awareness tests to hear the conversation (and stealth tests if he wanted to do so surreptitiously).

In general I don't think closed threads at something like a feast table make sense. In a huge crowd like the Princess arriving thread, sure - the crowd is big and loud enough that a quiet conversation can go unnoticed. At a smaller event like the Bread &
Salt reception? Not so much. Any conversation in that sort of environment is going to be permeable - anyone can just walk up and talk to you.

As for joining a closed thread, I agree: that should definitely only be done with the permission of someone already in the thread.

My general rule of thumb on creating threads is to make them (open) unless there is some specific in-character reason that they should be (closed).

[Theomore Tullison]

Yes, but that takes away the element where you, for story reasons, does not wish other characters to stumble into it.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Yes, but that takes away the element where you, for story reasons, does not wish other characters to stumble into it.

I disagree. In the real world If people want to have a conversation without being interrupted, they go somewhere away from where others might interrupt them. Why need it be any different here?
There is no reason that verisimilitude and storytelling have to conflict in this case. Indeed, I think verisimilitude adds to the storytelling aspect this way. Look at the narrative in the Drunken Huntsman with Loreia all but asking Dunstan and Ben to leave so that she and Baelon could have a private conversation. If that had been a closed thread to start, that sort of spontaneous narrative could not have occurred. It makes the character interactions more organic and more cohesive, rather than just being a series of vignettes.

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