Re: Game Discussion

[Reader]

is there to be a meeting with the new arrivals before the explosion?

Yes, an event where you present evidence is going up at some point over the weekend.

Wanted to get the explosion out of the way first as it has a follow-up event that needs to get started first as it might involve combat and drag out D4.

[Septon Arlyn]

Septon Arlyn volunteers his services to the combat.

Although I should really find that armor stretcher so that I can put on something a little more protective then heavy robes.

Besides, i'm pretty sure I am getting up there in number of outfits that I've had to purchase in similar quantities that Nathan started off with.

[Reader]

Septon Arlyn volunteers his services to the combat.

Although I should really find that armor stretcher so that I can put on something a little more protective then heavy robes.

Besides, i'm pretty sure I am getting up there in number of outfits that I've had to purchase in similar quantities that Nathan started off with.

You'll need to be invited to the combat by someone who rolled well in step 3, albeit Leucian Longbow happily qualifies as do several other players.

An oathsworn Lord Drakeson is being informed by an NPC as a result of previous investigations, so he knows where the wrongdoers dwell.

Those who rolled well on cunning/survival have some additional information to help you lot plan how to approach the incoming follow-up scene.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Remaining players:
Dunstan, Yve, Walton, Raynald, Jergen, Samurel.

I believe your lovely wife, Lord Drakeson, must also be added to this list.

[Luecian LongBow]

Regarding the below 2 threads, a discussion started on splitting into multiple groups to cover the expected multiple entrances/exits to the caverns(We have good information indicating two entrances and likely less than 20 men given typical cavern sizes and tracks per followup with Reader). Luecian has shared his information with Kevan, Jorah, Septon Arlyn and Nathan. He will try to share with Dunstan and Walton also if he can find them. Kevan and Jorah will pass along to other members of House Marsten or House Coldbrook/Drakeson but I think Baelon already knows per reader's comments.

Feel free to post any thoughts on the best strategy for approach but two groups of strong PC fighters would be a good start perhaps with more forces outside to prevent escape if some tried to flee during the fighting.


A royal arrival makes sparks-followup
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t=2155

No Lords, No Masters
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[Ereth Redwain]

Im ok fighter, but Im yet to be informed.

[Benedict Marsten]

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Jorah all I can say is ... Yo, Joe!

[Ser Jorah Holt]

http://dragonsdance.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=179&
t=2145

Jorah all I can say is ... Yo, Joe!

[Reader]

Jorah's thread, "
Where the Wine Things are"
and "
Duty and the Beast"
are recent highlights from the subject line alone.

[Reader]

A sneak preview of the follow-up scene. Hope everyone will feel involved and excited!

Basically boils down to:

Baelon - headstart + Brother Kyle's knowledge = faces off with Ser Hugh Rivers, with Lord Drakeson potentially conflicted by his previous conversation with Brother Kyle
Warrior PCs = their own combats in the caverns [winding terrain + easier for me to manage separate combats], including the odd instance of trying to defeat opponents before they dash past you with a flaming brand in to a room full of Wildfire!
Non combatant PCs = trying to manage the non-combatants pouring out of the caves once combat starts.

Slightly disappointed that enough people passed cunning checks to avoid sending in a warfare unit (making the leap of logic this will be avoided given succesful cunning rolls and PCs able to explain consequence)

Here's what I said in the Marsten forum:
"
Was hoping someone would send in a warfare unit so I could blow the cavern sky-high, but nobody seems that dumb and the cunning test warned several people not to do it. "

[Reader]

Nathan shakes his head and smiles. "
As usual Septon, you make things more difficult than the need to be. Slavery is illegal across the Seven Kingdoms. Smallfolk are already free to move. The only thing that stops them is the difficulties involved in doing so. Will they be able to protect their family? Where would they go? Will they find work when they get there? Will they be able to travel safely? It is not the law that stops them, it is the logistics.

If I hire a dozen servants in Riverrun, Lord Tully cannot say they cannot leave unless they have prior obligation to him. Even if they do, he might still have to let them go. A farmer cannot till his fields if there is a battle happening in them every other month. If you wish to move people to safer lives, then do so. You do not need anyone's permission. If you can guarantee their safety for the trip, and ensure they are cared for and employed when they arrive, there is really no legal reason anyone who wishes to leave cannot."


Nathan shrugged. "
I have contacts all over Riverlands... and I know which Lords care for their people and which do not. With enough time, money and words in the right ears, no-one who no longer wished to be here need be... and there is very little either House Bracken or Blackwood could do about it."

Nathan is correct here on legal grounds, but Lords Bracken and Blackwood (well, Ser Myles Blackwood in the latter case) are likely to regard this poorly IC and cause trouble.

That said, feel free to make a certain element of population resettlement part of the treaty to create a neutral buffer.

Or to just "
steal"
smallfolk without cloaking it in the approval of the royal peace treaty and bear the risk of political fallout.

I've had a few people PM me on the topic and if you lot pursue it, this will make an interesting plot development.

[Ereth Redwain]

Does Ereth now about the caverns?

Just checking because I recall Luecian told certain PC's and those PC to other, but not Ereth. correct me if wrong of course, while I try and read it since I probably most likely missed it.

Otherwise Ereth will move the royals to a safer location or manage the situation and probably try to avoid Aemond going crazy and burning everything to an extra crispy taste.

[Septon Arlyn]

Well as I told Nathan in a PM, Just because it is illegal to force the small folk to stay, there are a few lords who would not be above using the threats of force or fear in preventing the population from moving. That is why I chose the Bolton's, as they have a long history of using, (and abusing) their small folk. Along with the fact that there is still the whispers of them flaying men. And in the show it shows that Ramasy snow was hunting a small folk girl. It would not take much of a leap to conclude that the small folk of the peasants were little more then slaves, for the Lords to abuse how they will.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Nathan is correct here on legal grounds, but Lords Bracken and Blackwood (well, Ser Myles Blackwood in the latter case) are likely to regard this poorly IC and cause trouble.

That said, feel free to make a certain element of population resettlement part of the treaty to create a neutral buffer.

Or to just "
steal"
smallfolk without cloaking it in the approval of the royal peace treaty and bear the risk of political fallout.

I've had a few people PM me on the topic and if you lot pursue it, this will make an interesting plot development.

Oh... Nathan certainly knows that what is 'legal' and what is done are two different things. Remember he was purchased from his Father and was effectively a slave for six years. Also, the Ironborn have thousands of slaves, but they call them 'thralls' and they cannot be bought or sold, which gets them around the 'no slavery' rule.

He intends to quietly resettle some of the most hardest hit, regardless of what the treaty may say, but he certainly does not intend to advertise the fact or have it traceable to House Bartheld.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

Does Ereth now about the caverns?

Just checking because I recall Luecian told certain PC's and those PC to other, but not Ereth. correct me if wrong of course, while I try and read it since I probably most likely missed it.

Otherwise Ereth will move the royals to a safer location or manage the situation and probably try to avoid Aemond going crazy and burning everything to an extra crispy taste.

Yes, Jorah told Trelane to round up people to help, so anybody can join

[Reader]

[url=http:
//dragonsdance.
forumatic.
com/viewtopic.
php?p=60369#p60369:2vpkzx7k]Subject: [D4:MA] Touring the Devastation (Open)[/url:2vpkzx7k]

Septon Arlyn nods at Lady Corrine's words. "
I have never seen anything like it before a few days ago."
Septon Arlyn reaches into his pouch and pulls out a small vial of amber colored liquid. "
My Lady, This is an infusion of pine sap, peppermint, and lavender, distilled into an oil. I use it to help calm people and bring them closer to the Seven, that way they can more easily find the mothers mercy."
He offers it up to Lady Corrine, "
the peppermint also has the pleasant side effect of dispersing any odors that might be stuck in your nose."
He states, but not referring to the smell of death that clung to everything.

After pausing a moment Septon Arlyn continues, "
I'm sorry for yesterday my Lady. I should have deferred to your judgment in the matter of the mines. I would like to apologize for overstepping my bounds in questioning Lord Baelon. I had developed a friendship with Athelstan and was disturbed by his death, and I felt that the situation was suspisious. However Lord Baelon is a true knight, and I am glad that he was at least following the leads of the investigation"
even if he might have challenged the authority of this investigation process.

He pauses before continuing, waiting to see if the apology was accepted or not.

A thumbs up to our Septon for accurately reflecting the results of an intrigue. Italic text reminds us Baelon's intrigue isn't mind control, rest of the message gives Baelon credit for his victory and helps smoothe things over with other PCs.

Excellent play.

[Marq Mooton]

Well as I told Nathan in a PM, Just because it is illegal to force the small folk to stay, there are a few lords who would not be above using the threats of force or fear in preventing the population from moving. That is why I chose the Bolton's, as they have a long history of using, (and abusing) their small folk. Along with the fact that there is still the whispers of them flaying men. And in the show it shows that Ramasy snow was hunting a small folk girl. It would not take much of a leap to conclude that the small folk of the peasants were little more then slaves, for the Lords to abuse how they will.

So first things first. The show is non-canon. They make things up as they go, and the books are better. Also, Ramsay is a special case, Roose himself noted that he preferred "
peace and quiet"
pretty much stating outright that he thought Ramsay would be a walking disaster (though he did rape one of his smallfolk). Nothing in the canon suggests that the Boltons are any different than others when it comes to treating their smallfolk. Not so much when it comes to the treatment of prisoners and enemies.

However, most lords treats their smallfolk as dirt, which makes sense considering the time period. Feudal Europe was pretty much based around who held ownership over what land. The peasants worked the land by the local knight's permission, who ruled the land by the king's permission (through various lords in between), and the able bodied men got rounded up to fight in wars as needed, without much say, and if the knight fancied some girl or woman, then he took her with little fear of reprisal. There were always someone else willing to come work that land. Now, this might not be the case in the North where population is much more scarce, Russia for example, had serfdom well beyond the middle ages, because there were an abundance of land and not enough people to work all of it. Though I imagine that in the north, winter stockpiles (and the need and means to protect them) is a highly effective measure of control.

As for Brackens and Blackwoods, they can't legally stop the smallfolk from leaving. But unless you put it in the treaty, they probably can get away with trying. And even if you do, they might still mete out repercussions against any who would receive them. There's a lot of things you can do in the game of thrones that nobody can put you on trial for even if caught. Case in point being Theo's involvement in the rape of Brenda. He sure as heck is responsible, but all he did was talk to Benjen. That doesn't mean you couldn't use that knowledge to throw a spanner in Theo's works (and risk retaliation for that), but it's easy enough for Theo to claim that he never realized what his words could lead to, unless you bring in a bunch of false witnesses to testify to Theomore having conspired with others to get Benjen out of the way, but then you might have wanted to pin a juicier crime on him if you go to such lengths.

[Septon Arlyn]

Yeah, My thoughts are putting in language where if it is proven that small folk were harassed for trying to leave, that the harassing lord would be fined, (with fines going to support the king/ liege in assisting with relocation of the small folk. Not that any treaty we make will actually be honored by either party). But if we set the precedent that any Lord who is actively challenging the small folk from leaving faces a fine, instead of a mere "
there will be consequences"
then it would be easier later to deter any "
Bad Behavior"
as well as set up a relief fund to support the small folk in leaving.

[Reader]

On Ser Jorah saving Prince Aemond: firstly, the dice obviously want Ser Jorah to be considered for the Kingsguard given all the hard work the Blacks put in during Story 1.

Secondly:

Ser Barristan the Bold saves King Aerys and all men laud him for it, although he himself at times regrets it for the unintended consequences.

Ser Jaime Lannister slays King Lannister and all men despise him for it, although he saved thousands in doing so.

Ser Jorah has acted in a praiseworthy, bold manner that will be widely praised by both sides IC (Greens - he saved one of ours! Blacks - our preferred canditate for the Kingsguard will now be trusted by the other side, and he's as brave and talented as we hoped!).

Yet this may end up mirroring the Barristan case noted above, if Prince Aemond commits half the outrages described in the histories.

A neat way that we've inadvertently ended up foreshadowing (chronologically in the game's world at least) the books.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Folks who are waiting on me, please be patient. I just logged on to 12 messages, which is rwice my previous record (though I'm sure it's barely a fraction of what Reader gets every day). Several of them contain stuff I'm stressing about, and want to deal with properly, and IC-appropriately, so I will get posting as soon as possible, but right now, I have to go bang my head on a wall for a bit.

[Ereth Redwain]

Put a pillow there, I find that it prevent bruising and headaches after hitting a wall with your head

[Reader]

Folks who are waiting on me, please be patient. I just logged on to 12 messages, which is rwice my previous record (though I'm sure it's barely a fraction of what Reader gets every day). Several of them contain stuff I'm stressing about, and want to deal with properly, and IC-appropriately, so I will get posting as soon as possible, but right now, I have to go bang my head on a wall for a bit.

It's not a competition. :;
):

But if it was a competition I would win, handily.

Albeit many of my message are inspiring PMs I've written myself: "
Go on, you're the little narrator who could"
and so on.

Still a week to go on D4, so no need for any of us to stress.

[Kevan Lyras]

Regarding the fight: not counting the PC that are not active at the moment,we have to following fighters:

Ben
Kevan
Luecian

Jorah
Ereth
Loreia

How about to groups like this? (Did I miss a fighter?)

[Septon Arlyn]

On Ser Jorah saving Prince Aemond: firstly, the dice obviously want Ser Jorah to be considered for the Kingsguard given all the hard work the Blacks put in during Story 1.

Secondly:

Ser Barristan the Bold saves King Aerys and all men laud him for it, although he himself at times regrets it for the unintended consequences.

Ser Jaime Lannister slays King Lannister and all men despise him for it, although he saved thousands in doing so.

Ser Jorah has acted in a praiseworthy, bold manner that will be widely praised by both sides IC (Greens - he saved one of ours! Blacks - our preferred canditate for the Kingsguard will now be trusted by the other side, and he's as brave and talented as we hoped!).

Yet this may end up mirroring the Barristan case noted above, if Prince Aemond commits half the outrages described in the histories.

A neat way that we've inadvertently ended up foreshadowing (chronologically in the game's world at least) the books.

here is a pretty interesting podcast on pretty much those exact themes

[url:sczv3otk]http:
//radiowesteros.
com/radio-westeros-e14-barristan-a-white-knight[/url:sczv3otk]

and this speaks on Jamie in the second half I believe

[url:sczv3otk]http:
//radiowesteros.
com/radio-westeros-e12-jaime-cersei-two-halves-of-a-whole[/url:sczv3otk]

some good listening if your willing to shell out a few hours :;
):

[Septon Arlyn]

Regarding the fight: not counting the PC that are not active at the moment,we have to following fighters:

Ben
Kevan
Luecian

Jorah
Ereth
Loreia

How about to groups like this? (Did I miss a fighter?)

Well, the Septon would volunteer if needed, he could do some distracting/ assisting.

plus who doesn't want to challenge their character?

Also Lady Corrine could go if she felt like helping even the odds, I think that there is 20 people in there, if they are all fighters that would be 10 on each side (- 1 for the baelon fight)

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