Re: Game Discussion

[Benedict Marsten]

Ser Jorah smiled. "
it wouldn't be the first time I'd trained somebody how to use their armour better, though certainly a lot younger. If you want, I can give you a lesson now?"

The last guy he trained to be better in armor ... where is he again?

[Ereth Redwain]

So, I have been doing some reading about the Blackwood/Bracken feud. I had been under the impression that the conflict had started about five hundred years ago. Looks like I am wrong. The conflict seems to have started at least five hundred years before the Andal Invasion (and more likely closer to a thousand). Which means they have hated each other for about five thousand years, give or take an eon, rather than five hundred.

That's an awfully long time for two people to hate each other.

Yeah, that's going to be hard to sell then, considering thousands of years of war, wonder how many Houses around them have they seen raise and fall?

[Ser Jorah Holt]

Ser Jorah smiled. "
it wouldn't be the first time I'd trained somebody how to use their armour better, though certainly a lot younger. If you want, I can give you a lesson now?"

The last guy he trained to be better in armor ... where is he again?

hoping for better luck there

[Loreia]

So, I have been doing some reading about the Blackwood/Bracken feud. I had been under the impression that the conflict had started about five hundred years ago. Looks like I am wrong. The conflict seems to have started at least five hundred years before the Andal Invasion (and more likely closer to a thousand). Which means they have hated each other for about five thousand years, give or take an eon, rather than five hundred.

That's an awfully long time for two people to hate each other.

That's strange. I was under the impression(and I'm getting this from the wiki, so shoot me down if you have a more reliable source) that they became bitter towards each other during the Andal Invasion when the Brackens converted to the Seven.

[Baelon Drakeson]

No, that was just fuel to the fire. It started before some 500 to 1000 years before the Andal invasion.

From the Wiki of Ice and Fire page for House Blackwood:
"
The Blackwoods have an old and bitter feud against their neighbor in the riverlands, the Brackens, coming from the Age of Heroes when both houses ruled as kings. According to the Blackwoods, the Brackens were petty lords and horse breeders who hired swords to usurp the Blackwood kings. The Blackwoods believe this occurred five hundred years before the arrival of the Andals, but the True History states it was one thousand years before the Andals."


From the Wiki of Ice and Fire page for House Bracken:
"
The Brackens have the blood of the First Men in their veins and were kings of the riverlands during the Age of Heroes. They have an old and bitter feud against their neighbors, the Blackwoods. According to the Brackens, the Blackwoods were vassals who betrayed the Brackens and usurped their crown."


The date of the Andal invasion is contested from the wiki page of the invasion:
"
some sources indicate six thousand years ago, the True History states it was four thousand years ago, and some maesters claim it was two thousand years ago."

Note that the source cited for 6000 years is a non-canonical source, in character conversation from the books puts it at 2-4 thousand.

So the feud originated somewhere from 2500 to 5000 years ago.

[Loreia]

If anyone wants to run the mooks in this combat, help is appreciated

[url:2gi2b9xn]http:
//dragonsdance.
forumatic.
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php?f=191&
p=63800#p63800[/url:2gi2b9xn]

Couple things, want to clear up some stuff.

I find that listing more than one value in each of your stats is confusing. It would be easier on me personally if you were to list the equipment you have and to note whether you were un/equipping your shield, and listed just one value per stat, and listed why if needed. Knowing whether or not your shield is equipped or not is especially important because your quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon and thus poses a -2D penalty when used one-handed(meaning with 3D Fight and 1B Bludgeoning, you would roll 4 dice and keep 1). Unless you now have a 1-hander instead of the quarterstaff. When you have your shield equipped, it's going to be in one of your hands. You can't auto-swap for free when you attack, or when it's not your turn.

If you have both vestments and that armor underneath equipped, list only the sum value, for clarity's sake. Furthermore, do you have Armor Mastery? It's the only way I could see you having an AR value of 4 with only a penalty of 1, before vestments.

Lastly, since a dirk can't grab, the footpads would use their offhand. Before penalty, they'd roll 2D for Brawling.

Footpad stats in the rulebook are weird. Wouldn't the template for their stats involve Agility 3 if they're supposed to be the least bit competent as tertiary characters in doing damage in combat?

[Ser Walton Dulver]

If anyone wants to run the mooks in this combat, help is appreciated

[url:364h4nqe]http:
//dragonsdance.
forumatic.
com/viewtopic.
php?f=191&
p=63800#p63800[/url:364h4nqe]

Couple things, want to clear up some stuff.

I find that listing more than one value in each of your stats is confusing. It would be easier on me personally if you were to list the equipment you have and to note whether you were un/equipping your shield, and listed just one value per stat, and listed why if needed. Knowing whether or not your shield is equipped or not is especially important because your quarterstaff is a two-handed weapon and thus poses a -2D penalty when used one-handed(meaning with 3D Fight and 1B Bludgeoning, you would roll 4 dice and keep 1). Unless you now have a 1-hander instead of the quarterstaff. When you have your shield equipped, it's going to be in one of your hands. You can't auto-swap for free when you attack, or when it's not your turn.

If you have both vestments and that armor underneath equipped, list only the sum value, for clarity's sake. Furthermore, do you have Armor Mastery? It's the only way I could see you having an AR value of 4 with only a penalty of 1, before vestments.

Lastly, since a dirk can't grab, the footpads would use their offhand. Before penalty, they'd roll 2D for Brawling.

Footpad stats in the rulebook are weird. Wouldn't the template for their stats involve Agility 3 if they're supposed to be the least bit competent as tertiary characters in doing damage in combat?

How scenes like those are born

[Septon Arlyn]

I have a mace and a ball and chain in addition to my quarterstaff, I'm using the mace right now but I'm grappled so I just punched the guy. I do not have armor mastery but the superior ring reduced the penalty by 1. I was just using the footpad statics from the book as they are plenty dangerous even with only doing 1 damage per dos to me :;
): especially when backed up by a bandit

[Baelon Drakeson]

I have a mace and a ball and chain in addition to my quarterstaff

Septon Arlyn, breaking [url=the law][/url]... :;
):

[Septon Arlyn]

Would you deny the poor fat man his walking sticks and climbing pole? (Quaterstave and cudgel) or the tools of his faith? The insense bearer that happens to be reinforced? (Ball and chain). Anyways
Swords! Heaven's forbid! Those are weapons of knights and thieves, a proper man of the seven should not wear such armament! :;
):

[Reader]

Clearly Green agitation on the Septon's part to bolster his faction's power. :;
): Hightowers have always been close to the faith...

I'll buy his arguments for most of his weapons, but not all and some NPCs may see it differently. Some story potential here.

[Reader]

Good IC tension on display here, a bit of infighting helps capture the setting's flavour and stops it being a weird "
Westeros: Super Best Friends"
style incongruous nightmare.

Highlights for me are "
stolen"
, Baelon's bloodline being remarked on, relative social status and the shared history between the characters. Glad we've been running long enough to form these kind of bonds.

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[Reader]

Should try to dig out Theomore's puppet master picture. :;
):

She pauses for a moment, assembling words in her head. "
I don't always agree with how he does things,"
Gwyn finally says, "
But...there is reason behind what he does. It's not all about lacking faith in Corrine, nor you. It's not necessarily about thinking she'll make bad decisions, or not consult with us first. It's that she is simply too trusting in her eyes and ears. I tell you, Ben, what we've seen...someone who knows how investigation works, someone who understands how people think when they seek the truth of things, has laid traps for us. Information that seems incontrovertible, facts carefully placed to lead to a conclusion that seems foregone. In looking deeper, some of those certainties melt away, but if it was all brought to light too soon, the damage would be done. We are carefully being led, like cattle to a slaughterhouse. And Corrine, in her innocent and beautiful desire to keep the peace, plays straight into the wiles of the one who laid this path out before us."

[Luecian LongBow]

I just wanted to add some discussion to Black vs Green political affiliations as in the short time I have played I have got the impression its mostly viewed as traditionalists vs women's rights. That is definitely a major part but my understanding is that a significant part of the green party just did not want the black power couple in power(specifically Prince Daemon). Prince Daemon was exiled multiple times by his brother I believe and is reputed to be as treacherous as he is charming and deadly(If you have an issue with Ser Theo's actions, you should definitely be concerned/wary of Prince Daemon?). Lady Rhaenyra's children by her Velaryon husband(notably uninterested in women) have been rumored to be bastards born of a Strong, which visual evidence seems to support. Therefore one could find themselves perhaps supportive of say Lady Corrine's position yet still very green and in opposition of the black party. Many might even truly believe its in the best interest of the realm while of course others are more politically motivated. I believe somewhere(A World of Ice and Fire?) it says that Aegon was finally convinced by his supporters to take up the crown by their argument that there was no outcome where Prince Daemon would let Queen Alicent or her children live as possible future rivals of the crown...

On the Black side, many lords knelt to give homage to Lady Rhaenyra around the year 101 AL as her father declared her his heir. Many of the lord's heirs now in power claim they were not bound by their father's words or recounted the events that have occurred since as cause for their release(the green ones mostly of course). The blacks side can tout the oldest child and previously declared heir of the king, the most experienced military commander in Westeros during that time period, equal rights for female heirs?(not sure if this was actually part of their official doctrine or just assumed) and of course alot of Dragons...


(admittedly I joined late so this could already be covered or game canon could be different from other semi-canon sources)

[Septon Arlyn]

[url:2xiiq851]http:
//awoiaf.
westeros.
org/index.
php/The_Rogue_Prince[/url:2xiiq851]



I have not read this book, but apparently it details the life of Daemon Targaryen

warning, potential spoilers, Also some history on our prince as well

[url:2xiiq851]http:
//awoiaf.
westeros.
org/index.
php/Daemon_Targaryen[/url:2xiiq851]

[Septon Arlyn]

[url:ne1ex4zb]http:
//dragonsdance.
forumatic.
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php?f=193&
p=64661#p64661[/url:ne1ex4zb]

I love this little character development /foreshadow moments

[Yoren longshore]

Well I've always been under the impression that's it's the kings will vs the lords will. In addition to tradition VS progress. The lords expressed a will different from the king and that led to issues. Strong bastards, targaryen madness and suspicious circumstances around the kings death only served to muddle the waters. I've never thought of it as in depth as Luceian has, and I'll be looking into the rogue prince if I've got some time!
Btw Yoren thinks of it a bit more partially, this is pure OOC...

[Luecian LongBow]

I was hoping to add a bit more depth to the green side IC based on the semi-cannon I was aware of. OCC I think Prince Daemon should be the guy from the most interesting man in the world commercials for Dos Equis(Westeros based of course), so would likely totally be rooting for him!

[Yoren longshore]

Having read his wiki: OOC Yoren is almost as convinced as IC Yoren that green is the future! If not those Strongs might very well be dead, Daemon does not mess about! He's basically Theomore 2.0

[Marq Mooton]

Having read his wiki: OOC Yoren is almost as convinced as IC Yoren that green is the future! If not those Strongs might very well be dead, Daemon does not mess about! He's basically Theomore 2.0

More like Theomore being his disciple :;
):

[Baelon Drakeson]

The wiki being based on the books and the books being in-world histories and history being written by the victor, I would very much take everything in there with a grain of salt. :;
):

Honestly, one of the things I love about this period in the history is that there is no right side and no wrong side. The Greens have precedent, the Blacks have the King's will. The Greens have the ambitious Hightowers, the Blacks have the ambitious Prince Daemon. The Greens have Prince Aemond, the Blacks have, well, Prince Daemon again, he's just that badass. Neither side is good, neither side is evil - they are all just human, with human foibles.

[Reader]

The wiki being based on the books and the books being in-world histories and history being written by the victor, I would very much take everything in there with a grain of salt. :;
):

Honestly, one of the things I love about this period in the history is that there is no right side and no wrong side. The Greens have precedent, the Blacks have the King's will. The Greens have the ambitious Hightowers, the Blacks have the ambitious Prince Daemon. The Greens have Prince Aemond, the Blacks have, well, Prince Daemon again, he's just that badass. Neither side is good, neither side is evil - they are all just human, with human foibles.

Well said! It's a rich period - enough detail to have several interesting canon characters, not so well defined as to be a straightjacket. Potential for War of the Roses style tragedy as brother fights brother and father fights son across families great and small.

Plus lots of shades of grey, which is one of the setting's hall marks. Both sides have appealing and unappealing characters and both sides will commit atrocities, just like Blackwood v Bracken. :;
): Consider this a warm-up.

Prince Daemon's canon death is one of, if not the, most heroic moments in Westeros's history (if it really happened that way!).

[Nathaniel Mason]

TN 0 [9 +3(archers) -3(cavalry) -6(personal guard) -6(elite) would be negative 3, but 0 is the minimum TN on a test]

Not often you see a 21 Power Point unit.

[Baelon Drakeson]

TN 0 [9 +3(archers) -3(cavalry) -6(personal guard) -6(elite) would be negative 3, but 0 is the minimum TN on a test]

Not often you see a 21 Power Point unit.

That you don't. It's enough for a banner house of our own. Of course, they didn't start that powerful.

[Loreia]

Worthy bannermen of a northern house.

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