Re: Athelstan - Iron mines

[Theomore Tullison]

yikes, that was a heck of a lot to read through.

When was the last time that happened...I think Athelstan was involved then as well.

But where the heck is the rule that you can't quit an intrigue if you can't quit the scene? Because I'm pretty sure that one does not exist.

[Athelstan]

Quit
You need not suffer the indignity of an aggressive opponent, and provided
there’s an avenue of escape, you can usually flee an intrigue. Upon doing
so, the intrigue ends, but there are often other repercussions as determined
by the Narrator, especially if there are witnesses to your weakness.
Alternatively, when an opponent who proves uninterested in discussion
or negotiation resists your efforts, you may quit the intrigue
without trouble, though questions and information offered may raise
suspicions and have other consequences.

Which is what the basis for he can't escape the scene.

I say this, but Reader rules the first and so does Baelon

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Almost this exact thing happened in story 1 with Athelstan and Baelon's trial by combat, Theo. And thrn there was Jon Cobb.

[Ser Raynald Dulver]

I believe this avenue of escape should be taken figuratively instead of literally, basically meaning proper context or cause.

[Athelstan]

I thought I can quit intrigue because of THIS RAW

Alternatively, when an opponent who proves uninterested in discussion
or negotiation resists your efforts, you may quit the intrigue
without trouble,

Edit: Was told only if I can quit scene.

This open another avenue of I can just never get caught unless you have evidence instead of be mandated to not be able to quit the intrigue.

[Septon Arlyn]

Yeah... Poor Jon

[Athelstan]

The again they jut decide I'm guilty for not cooperating.

Same end I suppose.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Yeah... Poor Jon

Jon brought it on himself.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Quit
You need not suffer the indignity of an aggressive opponent, and provided
there’s an avenue of escape, you can usually flee an intrigue. Upon doing
so, the intrigue ends, but there are often other repercussions as determined
by the Narrator, especially if there are witnesses to your weakness.
Alternatively, when an opponent who proves uninterested in discussion
or negotiation resists your efforts, you may quit the intrigue
without trouble, though questions and information offered may raise
suspicions and have other consequences.

Which is what the basis for he can't escape the scene.

I say this, but Reader rules the first and so does Baelon

My interpretation of the text is that there are three parts:
Part 1:
You need not suffer the indignity of an aggressive opponent, and provided
there’s an avenue of escape, you can usually flee an intrigue.
the conditions for quitting

Part 2:
Upon doing so, the intrigue ends, but there are often other repercussions as determined
by the Narrator, especially if there are witnesses to your weakness.
possible ramifications to quitting

Part 3:
Alternatively, when an opponent who proves uninterested in discussion
or negotiation resists your efforts, you may quit the intrigue
without trouble, though questions and information offered may raise
suspicions and have other consequences.
exception to part 2 for certain intrigue types (i.e. the penalty for failing to negotiate something is that you failed to negotiate it - there isn't an additional social penalty)

The again they jut decide I'm guilty for not cooperating.

Same end I suppose.

I've asked before, and I'll ask again - please stop that.
We have evidence against you. It is compelling. It will come to light at the appropriate time.

[Athelstan]

True, just thinking of it IC he does not know of it. I know you have evidence, but for him IC it's the same fate in his train of thought.

Edit: I also mean Athelstan will die the same way I have worked with Reader.

[Reader]

Sorry everyone, forums went down for me for about an hour but were clearly working for everyone else.

Post soonish.

[Athelstan]

No a problem, let's just close this :;
): and move on, Athelstan is just finishing some threads but that is about it.

Warfare and IF needed the 3 brothers again.

[Baelon Drakeson]

True, just thinking of it IC he does not know of it. I know you have evidence, but for him IC it's the same fate in his train of thought.

Edit: I also mean Athelstan will die the same way I have worked with Reader.

If that is the case, could i ask you to please label what is a comment about IC Athelstan's knowledge about IC Baelon, IC Corrine, etc. as such?
Even if you don't mean comments like that to be an OOC personal attack, given the nature of the situation it is very easy for them to be interpreted that way.
A little care and clarity can go a long way to preventing OOC aggravation.

[Athelstan]

My apologies, will add IC before I write stuff, it's true I suppose and should be more specific.

[Reader]

No a problem, let's just close this :;
): and move on, Athelstan is just finishing some threads but that is about it.

Warfare and IF needed the 3 brothers again.

Warfare - will allow players to handle while I'm on business.

3 Brothers - will leave part 2 to another day, but you get a point of glory for their underlings.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Thank you.

[Theomore Tullison]

Well, it's a rather shitty OOC move to enforce intrigue upon those who wants to quit it, this entire incident kinda leaves a bit of a taste in my mouth of Baelon the player robbing Athelstan the player of all narrative control. And avenue of escaping may well be there, Corrine could throw herself into that intrigue and talk Baelon down. If Athelstan would rather die than spill, then a few threats of inflicting pain isn't going to make him talk.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Well, Theo, we were trying to discuss options, but Athelstan's OOC mind was made up. You may have noticed that there are many attempts to offer alternatives in this thread. They have all been rejected. It's Athelstan the player's right to make that decision, whether or not anyone else likes it.

[Athelstan]

IC Athelstan options is forced intrigue, he cannot quit, or accept somenthing he never will. Give an option that does not end on forced intrigue that he cant quit against, now or later as a prisoner.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Well, it's done now. Let's move on.

[Reader]

Well, it's a rather shitty OOC move to enforce intrigue upon those who wants to quit it, this entire incident kinda leaves a bit of a taste in my mouth of Baelon the player robbing Athelstan the player of all narrative control. And avenue of escaping may well be there, Corrine could throw herself into that intrigue and talk Baelon down. If Athelstan would rather die than spill, then a few threats of inflicting pain isn't going to make him talk.

And he's has chosen to die rather than talk, and die fighting rather than in a cell!

Athelstan and I hope you all enjoy the dramatic scene!

[Reader]

Well, it's done now. Let's move on.

What's done is done, as a famous lady once said.

[Theomore Tullison]

His choice, yes. There's circumstances here that I do not think I want to discuss further in public, but there's a few observations I have made along the path to that decision which I feel does not make it as simple as Athelstan refusing alternatives.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

It's not that simple, no.

It's an ugly situation. We have two players, who's IC characterizations are at loggerheads. Baelon acts as he is because of what he feels is overwhelming need, and Athelsten acts as he is due to similarly IC reasoning...his pride and his hate of Baelon.

In this case, Baelon's goal is to get answers, and he's brought the means by which to enforce that goal. And Athelsten's chosen his way to deny him that goal.

It really sucks it came down to that, but I can't point to anything anyone's doing 'wrong' per se. If Athelsten had a bunch of soldiers with him and Baelon had been alone, it could have gone the other way. And most likely with similarly tragic results.

[Athelstan]

That is fine just set presedent for PC vs. PC force intrigues or cinematic alternative lol.

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