Re: General Non-game Chat Thread

[Reader]

Well remembered, although that was alarmingly sensible work shoes. Normal service resumed on boots!

[Loreia]

I'm not really into entertainment with plots that are set before my time, which I hope is understandable. The wiki page says that the series takes place just in and around the theme park, which doesn't interest me. Why limit it to that unless you wanted it to be a thriller/horror show? I like fiction that explores the setting and gives ample interactions between the characters and as many aspects of what it's like to live with the technology and social atmosphere of said fictional time period.

What stage of grief are all of you in right now?

Seems like denial and anger for the most part.

Early on in the year, I hated both options equally, and even then I wasn't too sure of Bernie Sanders. So I'm pretty close to acceptance. Still concerned, still uncertain. Bad things were gonna happen no matter which nominee was elected, it was only a question of what kind of bad.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Please mark spoilers, but how many people are watching Westworld?

I haven't started watching it yet, but I am looking forward to seeing it when I can.

[Theomore Tullison]

I suspect that Trump did more damage with his candidacy than he'll do in his presidency.

But it should be rather deeply worrying that:
1. The Republicans have messed it up so badly for themselves that the most disliked presidential candidate in the times of reliable polling managed to steamroll through all the establishment candidates.
2. The Democrats ended up with a choice between the second most disliked presidential candidate in the times of reliable polling, who also happens to be such a horrible campaigner that she wouldn't stand a chance against any of the Republican candidates that were believed likely to win nomination (and lost to the one she actually had a chance to beat anyway), and a man so far on the left that he would be unelectable (except maybe against Trump) and if he did get elected, he would not achieve any of his ideas.
3. Truth doesn't matter anymore, politicians can make whatever statement they like and not be held accountable for it's veracity.

[Loreia]

Truth.

This was the first time I was even curious enough to look up the speeches at the end. Do people always chant "
USA"
at the acceptance speech, or was that just carried over from Trump rallies?

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

On the subject of truth, both candidates were pretty extensively fact checked and their many claims debunked as much as I'd expect/hope them to be.

But there we come into the situation where people either feel cornered into a choice by a worse choice, or simply refuse to believe that facts are facts in the first place.

What I feel right now isn't grief though. It's complicated, but it's not grief. I feel...disappointed in the now, and a great upswell of pity as I look forward.

I do disagree that the damage was greater as a candidate than as a President, but that is the sort of thing only time will tell us...one way or the other.

No more predictions from me.

- Oh, and as for the chanting...the specific chant may be a carryover, but it's not unheard of for there to be SOME kind of chant, I think.

[Nathaniel Mason]

I know there are many people who are reticent, and some downright scared, about recent events. I want to ally some of those fears, or at least put them into context. Take heart my friends.

First, No Man Rules Alone. The Presidency is certainly a powerful position, but in order to get any substantive change done, one must have the support of your minions. This includes, but is not limited to, the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court, the Defense Branch, and a whole host of others. Certainly, the Republican's hold both the Senate and the House, and this is an advantage, but the 'minions' in both buildings have expectations, and Trump will need to meet them to get any kind of legislation passed. Just because they are 'on Trump's side' does not mean they like Trump. In fact, many have come out and quite openly stated they voted against him and consider him vile. There may be a vast gulf between what Trump may want to do, and what Trump will be allowed to do.

The keys necessary to gain power are not the same as those needed to keep it. Quite simply, the methods Trump used to become President will not work when it comes time for him go govern. While Trump was quite happy to eviscerate anyone who got in his way, including the Republican establishment, such tactics will not allow him to govern. The Democrats may not be able to stop legislation, but they can do everything possible to drag it out for as long as possible. Hostile Democrats, even in a minority, can do substantial damage. There is also the the fact that Trump will need the very Republican establishment he eviscerated in order to get anything done. Trump may have gained the support of the uneducated (and possibly deluded) Republican voter, but his fellow Republican politicians are neither uneducated nor deluded. They will be watching for signs that Trump will implode, and the will be careful to ensure that should he implode, he will not take them with him.

No-one controls the machine for any length of time. Democracy politics is a giant Willy-wonka steam roller. No-one really controls it. There are some that can nudge it in the direction they want it to go. Many more make the attempt and are horribly flattened. Those key holders that feed the machine can either continue to pour in the fizzy drink, gum up the works or throw a wrench in to grind the thing to a halt almost completely. Add to that, every once in a while, we get one nobody like Snowdon, or a natural/economic disaster that sends the entire machine careening towards the ditch. Trump cannot do a great deal of what he said he will do, because, to be frank, no-one really has more than a general understanding of all the buzzers, cogs, wheels and whirly bits that are the dynamics of a Nation. The fact that so many are surprised that Trump won is obviously evidence of that. (There were only two candidates. How can so many be surprised that one of those two candidates won?)

Candidate Trump had a great deal of freedom and the campaign fed into his reality showman strengths. President Trump will be considerably more shackled just by the nature of the job. I think Trump is about to receive a rather abrupt reality check. President of a corporation and President of the United States are two entirely different things. Presidents of corporations rarely get told NO. The President of the United States gets told NO all the time.

Take the throne to act, and the throne acts upon you.

[Septon Arlyn]

Nathan, that is beautiful, mind if I post it on Facebook?

PS. Only up because vomiting has ensued. Yay for flu

[Reader]

Nathan, that is beautiful, mind if I post it on Facebook?

PS. Only up because vomiting has ensued. Yay for flu

My sympathies, particularly given the flu shot. Not much fun.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Nathan, that is beautiful, mind if I post it on Facebook?

PS. Only up because vomiting has ensued. Yay for flu

Sure, if you like. I don't think it is anything profound. I don't think a Trump Presidency will be particularly pleasant, but I am unconvinced it is the apocalypse either. Certainly minorities have much to be concerned about, but I don't think they have much more to concerned about than they did before the election. Certainly some hard won 'rights' are in jeopardy, but such hard won rights are not simply overturned in a democracy just because one man with a bad haircut wishes it. Besides, rights, whatever those rights be, never stop being fought for. It is the fight for those rights that makes them cherished. I think we are well past the time that the clock can be turned back on racism, homophobia and misogyny. The Western social conscious will simply not allow it.

I hope you feel better. Get well soon.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

https://youtu.be/k6C8SX0mWP0

[Nathaniel Mason]

This is an interesting read. Certainly it lays out the direction he wants to go in, and it is better to be informed than not.

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368 ... ium=social

I would not get too agitated by some of this stuff. Most of his goals range from, 'theoretically possible' to 'naively optimistic' to 'exactly what are you smoking?' Only one or two could be done with a stroke of the pen, and then, only so far as government employees while they are employed.

Mitch McConnell is already implying 'Isn't that quaint, but.. um.. no.' So only one day as President-Elect and the wagons are already circling.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

I just discovered today that Transmetropolitan has 2 volumes of its Absolute edition out. That's my election result blues dealt with. And if anyone's not read it yet, I highly recommend it. They'll be joining my Absolute Sandman collection soon.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Ah, good old Spider Jerusalem.

Do you like The Invisibles?

[Daveth Coldbrook]

Invisibles is actually on my 'heard good things about it, should probably get around to reading it someday' list.

...It's a rather long list.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I understand. Invisibles is really good. I should probably hold off on writing you a list of other comic book recommendations. Adding to the list is likely unwise.

I just started Kill 6 Billion Demons. It's interesting.

[Daveth Coldbrook]

I've not even heard of that one. Not too surprising, I'm not massively into comics: Sandman, Saga, and Watchmen (and soon my own copy of Transmet) are the only ones I own. Oh, and Artesia, for it's gorgeous, gorgeous art. Oh, and Judge Dredd. Read a few others through friends as well.

...Okay, maybe I am kind of into comics.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Heh. Sounds like it.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

How is everyone today?

For those who are struggling as a result of Wednesday, I want you to know I'm here if you want to talk, and if anyone wants to offer support or reassurance, that would be noble and appreciated. I may not be able to offer much concrete assistance, but I want to offer what support I can.

[Benedict Marsten]

I will get my re-rolls in when I get back from my son's wrestling practice.

This I like. How old and how long has he been wrestling? I actually coach youth wrestling is why I ask.

[Baelon Drakeson]

How is everyone today?

For those who are struggling as a result of Wednesday, I want you to know I'm here if you want to talk, and if anyone wants to offer support or reassurance, that would be noble and appreciated. I may not be able to offer much concrete assistance, but I want to offer what support I can.

Coming to grips with it, and thinking about how best to proceed. I watched an interview with Elizabeth Warren this evening which gave me some hope. It pays to remember that Trump is not a traditional party candidate;
as of a few years a go he was a registered Democrat. There is some common ground to be found between him and progressives, and for the rest there are filibusters and parliamentary procedures to gum up the works. Personally, I'm looking into finding volunteer or even employment options to support the causes I care about. It's tempting to look into leaving the country, but fleeing wouldn't help anybody but myself. The notion of being a fair-weather arm-chair advocate doesn't sit well, so it's time to put a bit more than just my votes where my mouth is.

A bit disturbed by the Russian government more or less bragging that they have ongoing direct contact with his campaign, though. It's one thing for us to have to own our own mess, it's something else altogether having to own a mess that someone else engineered.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

This I like.

That is so Arizona!

(If you haven't seen a particular episode of King of the Hill, that reference will mean nothing, but it amuses me enough that I can't resist.)

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

How is everyone today?

For those who are struggling as a result of Wednesday, I want you to know I'm here if you want to talk, and if anyone wants to offer support or reassurance, that would be noble and appreciated. I may not be able to offer much concrete assistance, but I want to offer what support I can.

Coming to grips with it, and thinking about how best to proceed. I watched an interview with Elizabeth Warren this evening which gave me some hope. It pays to remember that Trump is not a traditional party candidate;
as of a few years a go he was a registered Democrat. There is some common ground to be found between him and progressives, and for the rest there are filibusters and parliamentary procedures to gum up the works. Personally, I'm looking into finding volunteer or even employment options to support the causes I care about. It's tempting to look into leaving the country, but fleeing wouldn't help anybody but myself. The notion of being a fair-weather arm-chair advocate doesn't sit well, so it's time to put a bit more than just my votes where my mouth is.

A bit disturbed by the Russian government more or less bragging that they have ongoing direct contact with his campaign, though. It's one thing for us to have to own our own mess, it's something else altogether having to own a mess that someone else engineered.

I understand. I feel very impotent over here, unable to do much real helping. The number of trans/muslim/Latinx Americans I can hide in my 1-bedroom Dundee flat is functionally zero, alas. It's good that you want to use what you have to help others. I'm looking into ways I can help from over here. It's basically nothing, sadly. However, I may not be able to stop the bad stuff happening, but I can try to emotionally support and advocate for those who are adversely affected by it.

"
If we cannot stop the oppressors, we can at least protect the victims."

[Nathaniel Mason]

"
If we cannot stop the oppressors, we can at least protect the victims."

Yeah. As I said, my immediate concerns are more social than political. There are already people on the right who feel Trump's election legitimizes their behavior and vindicates their hate. There are some rabid SJW on the left that are using his election to justify some pretty disgusting behaviour as well. I expect his polarization of culture will continue.

Now, I am generally accepting of peoples opinions, or at least a strong champion of a person's right to their opinion, no matter how vile, disgusting, or ludicrous that opinion may be.. and tribalism is at the very core of human nature, so that has not changed and I doubt will ever change... but civilized society has a minimum standard of behaviour, and I see a lot of people actively trying to dig a pit under that standard. It is a sad day when members of the Westboro Baptist Church think they are in the majority. I certainly hope more reasonable heads prevail and those that feel aggression and violence are acceptable will meet swift consequences.

If there is a silver lining to all of this, at least many are not hiding behind political correctness any more. I've always thought political correctness was more of a shield for the bigot than a shield for the oppressed. Based on many polls, it's estimated that about 8-12% of Trump voters lied to pollsters about who they were voting for. Presumably they identified with his beliefs, but wanted to avoid the social stigma should he not win. Now that he has won they are proudly showing their support.

Today we live in a society where acceptable social dishonesty is preferred.. no.. demanded... over unpopular social beliefs. I want people to tell me the truth, no matter how vile, because then I can judge them on the quality of their character. Over the last couple decades, that has been very hard to do. The most disgusting people need only mouth the right words to be accepted. If Trump has lured those people out from under their rocks and made them feel safe, then I think he has done a great service for all of us. You can't fight an enemy you cannot see.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I do hope that the loud and obnoxious bigots are only getting louder and more obnoxious because their time and ways are coming to an end. I hope it is not growing power, but death throes. But it is hard not to despair when one sees all the horrible stuff already happening just 1 day in.

I'm working towards hope and determination, but it's a slog.

And then Leonard Cohen dies. Another of my beloved icons gone. Fuck 2016 forever.

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