Re: Game Discussion

[Davain Bartheld]

Well the whole appeal behind choosing the Wall is it’s a chance to regain some honor or a preferable alternative to death or maiming. My main concern is the everywhere I read the wording is an alternative or a way to avoid punishment so it just has me skeptical.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I'm not saying it can't be requested as an alternative, but I don't think it's nevessarily voluntary. That aside, the royal investigators can still recommend it as a punishment anyway. We have some leeway to choose what we think is appropriate. IIRC, people have been sent to the Wall in the first instance before in this game, during the last off-season.
Nevertheless, I'm sure Reader can give a ruling when he is able.

[Yoren longshore]

Well in the books we have Arya Stark who is brought up north by people going for the wall. They did not concent, they were just told to head up north. Biter, one of the men sent up north, was incapable of speech and illiterate, but he was still sent up north, as people did not care if he consented.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

Well, I also always believed that Wall is option to run away from punishment. But if I remember well, Lord Stark told Yoren to "
go and choose men to the Wall from dungeons"
or something like that- it may be also translating mistake or something, but...

[Ser Jorah Holt]

he did tell the recruiter to use the dungeons for any men who wished to join.

[Yoren longshore]

the rest he selected in the dungeons of the Red Keep, as allowed by Eddard Stark when he was Hand of the King.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Yo ... h_of_Kings

I got thirty this time, men and boys all bound for the Wall, and don’t be thinking they’re like that bastard brother o’ yours. Lord Eddard gave me pick o’ the dungeons, and I didn’t find no little lordlings down there. This lot, half o’ them would turn you over to the queen quick as spit for a pardon and maybe a few silvers. The other half’d do the same, only they’d rape you first.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Yo ... s_by_Yoren

Note that in the first he selected from the keep. In the second he picked from the keep. He did the picking, he decided who he wanted to have, the prisoners did not have a say.

[Theomore Tullison]

Most canon references being that a convict is allowed to take the black as an alternative to some other punishment like death, gelding, maiming, aye. There's cases where it has been applied directly, Bloodraven most notably, though "
free pick of the dungeons"
likely means that the smallfolk inmates gets to choose between the wall and the rope.

[Ser Walton Dulver]

well, that's what we assume from text, but until it's written directly, we can't know, I'm afraid Tell that to Eddard Stark and "
Queen must let you go to Wall, if You plead guilty"
but it was different situation and people status though...

[Theomore Tullison]

What we do know is that the watch executes deserters. So free pick of the dungeon could mean "
We'll send you to the wall and you can take your oaths or they'll kill you."


And it's "
allowed to take the black"
, Joffrey decided that he didn't want to allow Ned to do that. While Jaime offered the Blackfish to take the black (or else he would be executed). Tywin offered this to Tyrion if he had confessed. The latter two took the third option, but that's besides the point.

My conclusion on canon material would be that sentencing to take the black is highly unusual (at least for nobles, smallfolk can get summarily sentenced), possibly almost unheard of, and mostly a way to mitigate a death sentence.

[Davain Bartheld]

Typing up a long post that will hopefully bring order to the group. I ask everyone to reframe from posting in the forming a treaty thread for a couple of minutes so I can make sure I get this post done right.

[Theomore Tullison]

We're kinda waiting on a couple of votes to proceed, I think.

But order? I feel we're having pretty good order in that thread, relatively speaking. It's going to be a bit of a chaos with almost all PC's present, looks like it's under control so far.

[Davain Bartheld]

In my mind it seems alittle choatic, but I'll hold posting for now.

[Septon Arlyn]

We are more at the level of an organized chaos right now. But if you want to see real disorder go read the bartheld party thread :-)

[url:elx2c9ol]http:
//dragonsdance.
forumatic.
com/viewtopic.
php?f=53&
t=991&
p=24621&
hilit=Bartheld+party#p24621[/url:elx2c9ol]

[Kevan Lyras]

It is a bit chaotic, but I think with the move to voting we made a step forward. Noe its just about going through one topic after the other:
a) Who is the culprit?
b) Ideas for alternative punishments?
c) Voting
d) Repeat for next topic

[Yoren longshore]

Given time restraints, perhaps making a strawpoll with all issues could work? This way all issues are done swiftly andRP can be added onto that framework?

[Septon Arlyn]

Or we could create a topic for each issue and argue them simultaneously, with one index/Albania
Almanac sort of post linking to each issue.

Then of people wanted to have side conversations then we could make those separate threads as well,

[Yoren longshore]

That's a better idea :;
):

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Who is in favour of expediting the process by me posting a list of items to vote on, and having each voter just post their responses?

Davain, I appreciate your desire to help, but it's really the Marstens' job to maintain order in the meeting. Now that Corrine has called for voting, it should be less chaotic, and if a straw poll format is agreed to, it will be even more straightforward.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Or we could create a topic for each issue and argue them simultaneously, with one index/Albania
Almanac sort of post linking to each issue.

Then of people wanted to have side conversations then we could make those separate threads as well,

I think, since we're trying to get the meeting and D7 finished, that is a bad idea.

[Septon Arlyn]

Or we could create a topic for each issue and argue them simultaneously, with one index/Albania
Almanac sort of post linking to each issue.

Then of people wanted to have side conversations then we could make those separate threads as well,

I think, since we're trying to get the meeting and D7 finished, that is a bad idea.

What if we put a timeline and said that after the threads were created we had three more days to debate and by that time if the vote is not end is counted as an abstain vote?

[Theomore Tullison]

There's a D6 thread or two that needs resolution on a couple of matters relevant for the treaty on my end.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

There's a D6 thread or two that needs resolution on a couple of matters relevant for the treaty on my end.

You need to take that up with the people in those threads.

There has already been plenty of debate in the Crimes and Punishments OOC thread, Septon. I will not be going over it all again.

[Kevan Lyras]

Given time restraints, perhaps making a strawpoll with all issues could work? This way all issues are done swiftly andRP can be added onto that framework?

I'd prefer this idea over multiple threads. If we split discussions into various threads, we never make it through all topics. With the amount of time we already spent OOC discussing the various matters, I think we could come up with a relatively short list of things to vote on and options for each of these topics..

[Theomore Tullison]

It's mostly just reader that I'm waiting on.

[Davain Bartheld]

I like the Septon idea. While we have put out a call for voting, it is only on the first topic. In three days we might only be half way through the list, but if each issue was given its own thread with a three day time limit than we could be done with the matter in three days. It seems that certain people are more passionate about certain issues than others. The one pitfall of the OOC thread is it to cluster. Now people can finally get their points across without it becoming lost due to other people's discussions.

[Sponsored content]