Re: General OOC Chatter Thread

[Baelon Drakeson]

Look up blood and cheese.

But im still a black at heart!

I am familiar with that incident from the wiki, though I still haven't read TP&
tQ or TRP...
(when you read 30-100 pages of intricate and convoluted scholarship each day, the last thing you want to do for fun is read... the eyes need a break!)
It isn't clear to me from the wiki how much of the plan was Daemon's and how much was Mysaria's.

[Theomore Tullison]

The interesting thing with princess and the queen, rogue prince and world of ice and fire is that all those works are penned by maesters. What those books says are simply the accepted historical accounts in the IC universe.

[Reader]

Exactly right Theo. Let's work out what really happened in-game.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Right, so he's not a baby-threatening warlord... though he may be in the future.
Meanwhile, the Queen is still plotting a coup. :;
):

[Reader]

Right, so he's not a baby-threatening warlord... though he may be in the future.
Meanwhile, the Queen is still plotting a coup. :;
):

Black propaganda! Kill the bastard scum!

[Baelon Drakeson]

I suppose that she's not plotting a coup, technically - she's just trying to get the King to change his designated heir... the coup "
may"
come later...

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Man, I need to read up on this Blacks vs Greens thing again. Somewhere, at some point, I totally lost track of who was who, and why.

[Reader]

Hence the need for me to get working on that "
cast of characters"
page with short descriptions and pictures. As noted before, player contributions very welcome!

[Dunstan Tullison]

I am a black bc, feminism. Why would a gal be skiped in line of succession.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I am a black bc, feminism. Why would a gal be skiped in line of succession.

Same for Corrine, though she's also following along with what the rest of the family are doing.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Quick chronology, though not gonna look up the dates, so some of the particulars may not be in order:

Prince Daemon is the King's Heir.
King's son is born, but dies a day later. (I think the first Queen dies in childbirth here, but I don't remember)
Daemon overheard joking about the 'heir for a day'.
King gets pissed, sends Daemon away from King's Landing, names his daughter, Princess Rhaenyra, heir.
King marries Alicent Hightower.
Princes are born.
Queen tries to convince King that their son should be named heir instead of the princess. King says no.
Famous Tourney held, stuff happens. Princess is wearing a black gown, Queen is wearing green. From this the factions get their names.
Princess marries Daemon (making him the next king, though the line of inheritance goes through her, so his previous children are not in the direct line of succession)


Baelon supports the blacks for family reasons, obviously
EDIT: corrected sequence, thanks Theo

[Theomore Tullison]

Famous tourney happens before Daemon marries Rhaenyra. It's the "
strongs"
that are Rhaenyra's heirs, before the children of Daemon and Rhaenyra.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Famous tourney happens before Daemon marries Rhaenyra. It's the "
strongs"
that are Rhaenyra's heirs, before the children of Daemon and Rhaenyra.

Right. The current line of succession is:

1. Princess Rhaenyra[/*14nmzt84]
   
2. Rhaenyra's sons ostensibly by Laenor Valaryon (2)[/*14nmzt84]
   
3. Rhaenyra's sons by Daemon (2)[/*14nmzt84]
   
4. Queen Alicent's children by the current King (4)[/*14nmzt84]
   
5. Prince Daemon[/*14nmzt84]
   
6. Daemon's daughters by Laena Velaryon (2)[/*14nmzt84]

I think that's everyone...
If legitimized Baelon would be inserted into the list between Prince Daemon and Daemon's daughters, making him 11th in line for the throne.

EDIT: Daemon and Rhaenyra will in theory have a daughter, too, but that won't happen for some years yet so I didn't include her.
I think everyone else has been born at this point in time.

[Reader]

That line of succession is, appropriately, written in Black. Dangerously Dornish. :;
): a list in proper, Andal green would look different...

[Theomore Tullison]

If legitimized, there is a very, very big grey area, mostly left unexplored, as to whether or not Baelon comes before his half-sisters or not in the line of succession.

Might be why the only king that ever legitimized royal bastards was also nicknamed the unworthy.

[Baelon Drakeson]

That line of succession is, appropriately, written in Black. Dangerously Dornish. :;
): a list in proper, Andal green would look different...

I was assuming a 'neutral' "
As the king has decreed, and with that setting precedent"
. Yep, totally neutral. :;
):

If Andal tradition held over everything EXCEPT the king's declaration of heir (as he is the law, his will supersedes custom), the only difference would be that Alicent's daughters would be moved down under Prince Daemon. Everything else would remain the same, I think.

Now, if the King declares a new heir, that changes everything.

If legitimized, there is a very, very big grey area, mostly left unexplored, as to whether or not Baelon comes before his half-sisters or not in the line of succession.

Might be why the only king that ever legitimized royal bastards was also nicknamed the unworthy.

Yes, that is true... I was assuming that legitimization meant that he would be considered exactly like any other legitimate child - by birth order/sex as per law/custom.
I think Daemon Blackfyre, once legitimized, was the eldest legitimate son, which is why he had such a strong claim?

Though of course, as has been brought up before, inheritance laws/customs are a cesspit of confusion and contradiction and inheritances are typically determined by power more than law/custom anyway. It's just that in most cases the power follows the law/custom, so it isn't obvious that power is the deciding factor.

[Theomore Tullison]

Nah, Daeron was 17 years older than Daemon.

Alicent's daughters still has a stronger claim in the Andal custom than Daemon does, since a daughter generally comes before an uncle. Generally. The interesting thing is that under Andal custom, Alicent's sons comes before Rhaenyra.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Hehe, the real question of course is, 'can Alicent's son raise a bigger army, faster than Rhaenyra?'

[Theomore Tullison]

That's how it usually goes, yes.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Of course, there is also the very important question of 'who can field more dragons?'

[Baelon Drakeson]

Ooh! New 'newest member', looking like a Bartheld player. Welcome Derrock Swann! From the profile pic I'm guessing an uncle or great-uncle of Ayleth Swann?

[Derrock Swann]

Ha! Seems like I'm being spied upon.

I'm still trying to figure out his relation with Ayleth, but it's probably something along those lines. What I wouldn't give for a full timeline full of family trees and dates right now!

And yes, I'd default to Bartheld, though it's more because of Ayleth than the Barthelds themselves. Nothing else pinning me there.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Ha! Seems like I'm being spied upon.

Heh, not so much spied upon... at the bottom of the board index there is a 'our newest member' listing. There you are, and a click shows your profile, including profile pic.

I'm just observant and curious... a dangerous combo sometimes. :;
):

What I wouldn't give for a full timeline full of family trees and dates right now!

I get that. It took me many hours to put one together just of the Marstens, and that involved some sketchy assumptions to make everything fit...

[Derrock Swann]

Heh, not so much spied upon... at the bottom of the board index there is a 'our newest member' listing. There you are, and a click shows your profile, including profile pic.

I'm just observant and curious... a dangerous combo sometimes. :;
):

Yeah, I see that. You still did click, didn't you, boy?

I get that. It took me many hours to put one together just of the Marstens, and that involved some sketchy assumptions to make everything fit...

Sketchy assumptions seem to be the way to go, then. Onwards to speculation!

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

RAMPANT SPECULATION HYPE

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