Re: General OOC Chatter Thread

[Baelon Drakeson]

The PCs here do seem surprisingly accepting, yes. Between Ironborns, bastards, kinslayers and warrior women, I'm surprised the most conflict that seems to have arisen is spoiled marriages. I could've missed something, though.

The Kinslaying was a big upset when it happened, and the choice of punishment was solidly in NC hands (i.e. Reader's choice). It is still having major implications for anyone dealing with the Ironborn, though Yoren has managed to salvage some of his deals...

The spoiled marriages are not so much of an issue, really... the only one who really got screwed on that front was Athelstan, and even then that was more tied up with the Kinslaying matter than anything else. Though I suspect that Lady Isobel would have taken a much stronger position against that pairing than she is with Ben... and she wouldn't have been alone.

As I understand it, there are a number of long game plans brewing.

That there certainly are. We've already had a few eruptions of activity resulting from behind-the-scenes plots and maneuvers, and I have no doubt we will see more.
Plus of course, there is the larger political battle going on, which is threatening to turn into a civil war...

I've gotta say, I am LOVING the interplay between these three levels (personal, house politics, national politics) that is going on in this game.
Kudos to Reader and all my fellow players on that. It's truly a collaborative effort.

[Athelstan]

I also think lady Isobel was kind of to easy lol, and surprise the other Knightly houses sworn to Marsten are so not a problem about it, but meh... Just my opinion which I assume a lot probably won't agree with lol

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I suspect she's only making it seem easy. False sense of security and all that. Hence Corrine taking the matter into her own hands.

[Athelstan]

That might seem the case thus far, but we shall see what happens next.

She could marry Jon Cobb lol and make him the Lord of the House and kick you out hahaha

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

The only houses sworn to Marsten are Kriegar and Lyras. Isobel had doubts about Ben, but they were just because he's not of a strong name and hasn't had a lot of famous deeds. Dunstan's vouching for him (and tacit threat to withdraw aid) did much to mollify her.

Athelsten would have been an entirely different beast. Rather than looking at someone for whom there's no particular outstanding qualities, but no particular negative ones either, Isobel would have seen someone against whom several very convincing and cogent arguments against could be made even BEFORE the whole 'kinslaying' thing.

Once he pled guilty to murder of his half-brother, it quite simply wouldn't have happened. I dunno if any amount of agitating from Corrine would have convinced Isobel to put an ironborn convicted of that crime as Lord of House Marsten. She'd have given it two Gwyn before she let that happen, I think. Corrine might have run off with you, but that's about the only way that realistically you'd have been together.

As I see it at least. I can't speak for Isobel, of course. That's just my impression of her.

[Athelstan]

You can also argue that is a Tullison maneuver to take over the Marsten lands and their sworn knightly Houses, not an uncommon move.

Why does a sworn sword with no deed to his name, cousin to a Minor House Lord instead of the House lord himself is marrying my daughter. That looks more like a political move to take over Marsten lands.

Edit: IC Marsten are capable of finding allies other then Tullisons for a campaign.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

That might seem the case thus far, but we shall see what happens next.

She could marry Jon Cobb lol and make him the Lord of the House and kick you out hahaha

Not if Corrine is about to declare herself in charge.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Lady Isobel also has a few irreconcilable problems before her.

First, I think Jon hit it on the head when he told Corrine IC that Lady Isobel cares for her, and is (over)protective as a result.
On the other hand, she wants to do what is best for House Marsten, as that is her duty, and also Corrine's future.
If Corrine wants something BAD for House Marsten (a close alliance with an unstable and widely detested house, i.e. marrying Athelstan), Lady Isobel would have to choose which of those two things is most important. Further, she has to gauge whether or not Corrine will be happy with her choice in 5... 10... 60... years, as part of protecting Corrine is protecting her from her hormone-fueled 18 year-old self.

The second matter is that Lady Isobel must be careful how she wields her power. Corrine having been aged up means that she is not a minor - she is an adult by Westerosi standards. That means that Lady Isobel's regency has technically already ended. Now, Corrine has not pushed for her legal rights yet, and has contented herself with letting Lady Isobel rule... but should push come to shove (like marrying Jon and trying to rob Corrine of her inheritance) Corrine could assert herself and her legal claim (and likely much of the House - including at least some of the military leadership - would back her). So she must choose her battles. She know Ben from his years of squiring at Hartshorn, so she likely has a good grasp of his character... and likely doesn't find that objectionable. Further, while she originally objected to his being from a lesser house, her conversation with Corrine about Baelon shows that it is not social status she cares about so much as what the individual can bring to the House... and Dunstan has made it clear that Be brings an alliance with House Tullison, which is a respected house and a more-or-less close neighbor with many of the same problems (i.e. the clans).
In other words, while she may not be sure that Ben is the BEST choice for Corrine's hand, he's not a BAD choice, and it's not worth it to her to fight hard against it at this point.

/rant on family dynamics and house politics...

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Arr, well, technically Corrine marrying -anyone- could be construed as an attempt to gain influence over House Marsten, it's true. That's one reason a female heir is such a dill pickle of a dealio in Westeros. The only shield Marsten has against that is the somewhat threadbare shield that the Lord's authority stems from the Lady in this case...meaning that technically her word would supercede his, though a great deal of that depends on who you're dealing with and what custom/tradition they personally support. Not until she bears a son is the shadow over the House's name truly past, and then only if he lives to take power.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Well, for that matter any marriage can be viewed as an attempt to take over a family. Lord A marries his daughter to Lord B, then pressures Lord B into various actions, as Lord B 'owes him'... this can actually get stronger when children are born as they can be sent as pages/squires/wards of Lord A.

Basically, any alliance has risks, but on the other hand if you go totally isolationist you end up everyone's favorite enemy.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Both well said, Baelon &
Gwyn . You have far better articulated my thoughts. There is also the factor that, although it's not romantic, Ben's nature means he's less likely to try and impose his will on Corrine, so the concern about her husband trying to take the reins off her is obviated.

Also, "
dill pickle of a dealio"
is a brilliant phrase!

[Aeron Sand]

http://dragonsdance.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&
t=925

Surely you will accompany your Lord.


Is Aeron a good scout? We might need one of those.

I sent you a PM.

[Athelstan]

It's different to send a Ward or some direct family member, not a cousin which is an entirely different matter, which also doesn't even hold the same family name. So it is not the same thing at all, he is just a relatively unknown sword that is the cousin to a minor house lord to marry a renown noble house, so it is quite different then sending someones son, daughter or ward as they at least share a direct family line and share the name.

Edit: Technically Athelstan didn't immediately yield if you read the narrative combat, just FYI.

[Baelon Drakeson]

It's different to send a Ward or some direct family member, not a cousin which is an entirely different matter, which also doesn't even hold the same family name. So it is not the same thing at all, he is just a relatively unknown sword that is the cousin to a minor house lord to marry a renown noble house, so it is quite different then sending someones son, daughter or ward as they at least share a direct family line and share the name.

Completely not my point. It's not that Ben is acting as a ward from House Tullison to House Marsten. Not at all.
Honestly, while Ben has friends in Hartshorn, ultimately he is not the head of house... and the various military commanders are much more interested in upholding Corrine's rule not his.
Should Ben prove to be a problem for Corrine and House Marsten, he is likely going to find himself lord of a dungeon cell, or maybe a tower room, if Corrine is feeling generous.

Not that I think that would happen... but btw Ben, consider yourself warned.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

It's different to send a Ward or some direct family member, not a cousin which is an entirely different matter, which also doesn't even hold the same family name. So it is not the same thing at all, he is just a relatively unknown sword that is the cousin to a minor house lord to marry a renown noble house, so it is quite different then sending someones son, daughter or ward as they at least share a direct family line and share the name.

Edit: Technically Athelstan didn't immediately yield if you read the narrative combat, just FYI.

She did say almost immediately.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

And she wasn't there either, so she's going off hearsay.

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