Re: General OOC Chatter Thread

[Reader]

I tried to bait Coldbrooks in to bringing him, tempting them with investigation success.

They placed House discipline above the investigation, letting down the cause of justice (okay, still baiting them). :;
):

Garret is kicking his heels at Castle Grenward, missing Corrine. He's keen to write or meet up.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Garret is kicking his heels at Castle Grenward, missing Corrine. He's keen to write or meet up.

Haha! Aww, poor little sausage. No MILF for him. Well, not on this occasion, but feel free to store up temptations to throw at Corrine later. In fact, I encourage anyone with an interest to do so. I reckon that marriage would survive a stress test.

[Loreia]

Hmm, risking a diplomatic incident might be worth it. Next time...

[Reader]

Black propaganda even infects the House Fortunes thread!

Andal tradition, male heirs and rulers forever! For the Greens!

Lord Marsten takes the reins of house Marsten allowing his Lady wife a much needed reprieve to spend with Bethany.

(ooc: It appears Ben should stick to the battlefield. House Marsten is ran much better with a Lady's touch.)

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Progress! Prosperity! Pride!

[Loreia]

I peeked at the wiki page for House Blackwood, it says they accused the Brackens of poisoning their weirwood, this was a little while after the Andal invasion, after House Bracken converted to the Seven. The description in the Raventree thread says that the Blackwood weirwood is burnt. These are two conflicting statements.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I think our story deviates a little from the canon.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Whose to say they didn't do both?

[Nathaniel Mason]

Or the Blackwoods burned it themselves in an attempt to purify it.... or in an attempt to slander the Bracken's further.

History has a way of being part propaganda, part truth, part mystery, and mostly forgotten.

[Baelon Drakeson]

A thought on the story 2 investigations - they should be in separate threads, not in the location descriptions.

1) They take a time slot, so the time slot (and day!) needs to be designated.
2) It's already getting to be a mess, and that's with just day 1.

I don't think there is a way to move posts (Reader might be able to, but it would be a big mess of work),
I would suggest that we each start a thread for our investigations, then delete our posts out of the descriptions. I know it will be a bit of a pain, and some things will need to be coordinated first (e.g. Arlyn, Luecian, and Jamys will need to agree on a timeslot, as their discussion puts them all there at the same time), but I think it will make the game a lot better moving forward - those description threads are going to get out of hand fast if we don't clean them up sooner rather than later.

[Reader]

A thought on the story 2 investigations - they should be in separate threads, not in the location descriptions.

1) They take a time slot, so the time slot (and day!) needs to be designated.
2) It's already getting to be a mess, and that's with just day 1.

I don't think there is a way to move posts (Reader might be able to, but it would be a big mess of work),
I would suggest that we each start a thread for our investigations, then delete our posts out of the descriptions. I know it will be a bit of a pain, and some things will need to be coordinated first (e.g. Arlyn, Luecian, and Jamys will need to agree on a timeslot, as their discussion puts them all there at the same time), but I think it will make the game a lot better moving forward - those description threads are going to get out of hand fast if we don't clean them up sooner rather than later.

I'm your narrator, and I approve this message.

[Luecian LongBow]

I don't think there is a way to move posts (Reader might be able to, but it would be a big mess of work),
I would suggest that we each start a thread for our investigations, then delete our posts out of the descriptions. I know it will be a bit of a pain, and some things will need to be coordinated first (e.g. Arlyn, Luecian, and Jamys will need to agree on a timeslot, as their discussion puts them all there at the same time), but I think it will make the game a lot better moving forward - those description threads are going to get out of hand fast if we don't clean them up sooner rather than later.

I will move the Septon, Luecian and Jamys posts to a separate thread. I think since the calling of either the Blackwoods or Brackens occurred mid-morning, I am going to slot our investigation at EA, Lady Corrine and Jamys discussion would actually occur LM I suppose. I'm going to quote all the original investigation and conversation posts between us three and move them into the new thread. PM if you want anything differently guys.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I'm having intermittent internet issues at the moment, but will fix my stuff as best I can once I have a reliable connection.

[Loreia]

Having a big blast playing some cool games: Until Dawn, Rebel Galaxy, and pretty soon Fallout 4. Gonna make like Bruce Wayne when he's waiting on his signature sky signal and isn't attending his company meetings, and waiting on his reservations, once that game ships right to my door. Just making sure you guys know what's up.

Still haven't finished New Vegas yet...

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Mmm...Fallout 4.

I'm also geeking out a bit that Quantic Dream is making a full game continuation of their 'kara' tech demo. Beautiful bit of writing and design, that...love to see where it goes.

[Loreia]

Oh dang. I just saw it. That "
story"
bit at the end though, blegh. It's become a trope.

It looks like the focus will be on how bad we are sometimes at being human, despite being capable of creating intelligent(sentient or not) technology that can be more pure of heart more consistently than most people ever can be. There might be a message in there somewhere about the beauty of our personal feedoms, choices, and our individuality. As far as gameplay, I hope it's more of an adventure game than a QTE movie.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Hehe, you're inferring a lot. I doubt it will come down to 'humans = bad, robots = good.'

But yeah, we'll see. Anyway, I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, they could drop the ball (Beyond Two Souls was fairly disappointing), but Heavy Rain was pretty good...I'd like to think they have a shot at making this something good.

[Loreia]

Oh I'm not saying it'll be us = bad, robots = good, it'll be gray and we like gray. I like to think I'm good at guessing the overall theme(s), though. :8-):

[Baelon Drakeson]

There have been a few statements made OOC in various IC threads about intriguing other PCs or ways to resolve such intrigues, and I thought it might be a good idea to actually have a conversation about it.

What has been said:
From the Story 2 Almanac:

- you're free to intrigue investigation results out of other PCs separately from specific investigation threads.

From IC threads:

[Yoren would like to engage in an intrigue]

[Well, sure, though my preferred way of resolving PC on PC intrigue is to negotiate a yield where both get something out of it.]

[A simple yield where you get whatever you want (within reason) and I get to increase Theomores disposition to amiable ir really my only goal for the intrigue.]

and

[OOC: Normally, I would Intrigue Garred at this point, but it is perhaps early in the week, and I am concentrating on other investigations. I have no reservations Intriguing PCs. Indeed, Reader has made it clear that he intends PCs to Intrigue each other during these investigations.

A case for PC-vs-PC intrigue
I have two points to make on this, the first bland and reasoned, the second fiery and impassioned.

The first point:
If we don't engage each other in intrigue, there was little point in investing in intrigue capabilities, and no cost to building an intrigue-weak character. Yet that is one of the balancing factors in this system - if completely freed from non-voluntary intrigue, there is no reason not to build a super-specialist in some other arena (combat is an obvious and popular one, but there are others). This goes in all directions. We have seen Arlyn drawn into a fight recently. Last story, Corrine was in a similar situation. We should all be subject to intrigues and to other situations that we cannot predict on occasion.

We should engage in intrigue (at least a simple intrigue) any time we are doing more than roleplaying (i.e., if we have an objective - friendship, information, service, and so on). To quote the rulebook:

Without an objective, you don’t have an intrigue—you’re just roleplaying,
which, of course, has a place in the game but doesn’t often advance
the story in significant ways.

If your conversation is advancing the story "
in significant ways"
, it should be an intrigue.

The second point:
Please note that much of this is my opinion, and it is a broad statement not directed at anyone in particular.

In the words of one of my acting coaches: "
People don't write plays about eating oatmeal."
In other words, no scene in a play should be bland. Every scene should be dramatic and intense.
Lately, this game has been lacking in both drama and in intensity. It would be easy to put that at Reader's feet, as the narrator - but that would be a mistake. It is much more on us as players. The narrator sets the stage, the players bring it to life. Ok, that's a bit over-simplistic, but not incorrect.

Drama comes from conflict. Romeo and Juliet is not exciting because two people fall in love. It is exciting because of the conflicts surrounding and created by that relationship. King Lear would not be interesting if everybody got what they wanted or played nice. Our characters have been drawn into the Game of Thrones, whether they wished it or not. we all know what that means: you win or you die. There is no middle ground. Of course, this should be IC conflict between characters, not OOC conflict between players. OOC we should be trying to make sure that everybody is having fun. IC the gloves should be off.

So, what does this have to do with intrigue?
Not only should we engage in intrigue often, we should not OOC know what each other want in an intrigue. Even yields should be offered blindly - who knows what someone might offer up if they can't simply offer what you are thinking of? [url=The recent intrigue between Ben and I][/url] is a great example of the power of hidden information. I deliberately did not give any OOC information about Baelon's goals - which on an IC level was friendship, and on an OOC level I was hoping Ben would (when later in time he found out about it) ask me to assist against the alleged Sept bandits. What happened? For completely IC reasons Ben thought I was trying to manipulate the outcome of the investigations - now a bit of a rift has formed between the two characters, and no one knows what will become of that. Dramatic! Neither I the player nor Baelon the character got what we wanted - quite the opposite. Yet it was one of the most enjoyable scenes I've had in a while.

[Nathaniel Mason]

I would have to agree with Baelon in this. I think both Intrigues and Combats are important in the game, even between PCs, when narratively appropriate.

My comment was largely due to:

[Is an intrigue in place?]

(OOC: I would be glad to save intrigues for halls etc, we can RP whatever is needed in here. Garred is ready to cooperate as we can see, without persuasions. I'm not big fan of intrigues vs PCs to be honest, but system is system also )

[Of course, I agree that pc vs pc may become a little sketchy:)]

Now, having agreed with Baelon, I will add a caveat. I am a huge fan of situational modifiers. Nothing burns me more than being Intrigued into doing something completely out of character.

Example 1. "
Nathan, I'd like you to have Lord Bracken assassinated."


Assuming I don't quit the Intrigue, there should be a small modifier to that. Ok.. Lord Bracken is a beast, and the world would probably be a much better place without him, but there may be a great deal of risk involved. It helps that Nathan loathes the man, but it could also cause many complications. Perhaps in this case a +3 to ID.

Example 2. "
Nathan, I'd like you to have Lady Corrine Marsten assassinated."


Yeah.. um... no. Assuming, for some reason I can't quit the intrigue due to circumstance (like being tied to a chair), there should be a huge modifier to ID (like +12) based on our past history, our dispositions to each other, or simply because it would be vastly out of character.

From what I have seen, people tend to avoid Intrigues. Perhaps they do so because it's surrendering some control over your character, and players rarely like to do that.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I agree with what Baelon and Nathan have said.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Now, having agreed with Baelon, I will add a caveat. I am a huge fan of situational modifiers. Nothing burns me more than being Intrigued into doing something completely out of character.

Example 1. "
Nathan, I'd like you to have Lord Bracken assassinated."


Assuming I don't quit the Intrigue, there should be a small modifier to that. Ok.. Lord Bracken is a beast, and the world would probably be a much better place without him, but there may be a great deal of risk involved. It helps that Nathan loathes the man, but it could also cause many complications. Perhaps in this case a +3 to ID.

Example 2. "
Nathan, I'd like you to have Lady Corrine Marsten assassinated."


Yeah.. um... no. Assuming, for some reason I can't quit the intrigue due to circumstance (like being tied to a chair), there should be a huge modifier to ID (like +12) based on our past history, our dispositions to each other, or simply because it would be vastly out of character.

From what I have seen, people tend to avoid Intrigues. Perhaps they do so because it's surrendering some control over your character, and players rarely like to do that.

Ah yes, it does need to be reiterated that Intrigue is not mind control.

I think this where the concept of intrigue types comes in.
In a simple intrigue, you can be talked into doing something that you want to do anyway, even if you know you probably shouldn't.
In a standard intrigue you should be able to be talked into doing something you don't really want to do, but not something that you are vehemently opposed to.
In a complex intrigue (which should take days or even weeks IC) you might be talked into doing something that you would normally be vehemently opposed to - by changing your attitude towards the action.
In all cases, the longer between intrigue and action or the higher the risk/consequences of the action there should be some room for backing down/changing your mind.

That should be sufficient to eliminate anything too bad, without having to introduce new mechanics.

[Nathaniel Mason]

That should be sufficient to eliminate anything too bad, without having to introduce new mechanics.

Actually, the mechanics are already in the books. It's simply a variation or interpretation of the Location modifiers.

Location
Location can be a critical factor in deciding the outcome of an intrigue.
Certain environments are more conducive to an intrigue than
others. For instance, trying to seduce a pious noblewoman inside a
sept is far more difficult than seducing an enthusiastic serving girl
in the shadows of a darkened hall. The appropriateness of the venue
may bestow a bonus to a character’s Intrigue Defense, usually a +3
bonus for awkward environments, +6 for inappropriate locations, and
+12 or more for wildly inappropriate settings. An awkward environment
might be bargaining for a sellsword’s service in front of a current
employer. An inappropriate location would be trying to intimidate a
young noble while his father looks on, and a wildly inappropriate setting
would be trying to seduce a Silent Sister on a battlefield littered
with the dead and dying.

I am just using these modifiers when the circumstances are inappropriate rather than the location. It's not new mechanics.

[Yoren longshore]

Example:
I'm not completely steady on the system, but here's a real life example.
I've worked with a guy who had much experience as a salesman. And he said that he'd never had someone want his product, but he reckoned that 1:20 people could be persuaded to change to his company's internetprovider.
Few people have great confidence in a voice over the telephone and most are happy enough with their provider, so they would get a ID bonus, but few people are vehemently against internet:) If he had sold enriched uranium i think he would get different replies:)

[Nathaniel Mason]

An in-game example might be Nathan trying to Intrigue Baelon to kill his Father in hopes of preventing a war.

Complex Intrigue... absolutely.

However if Baelon wanted a ID modifier as well, I think, as a reasonable player, I would have to agree.

Theoretically, you can get someone to commit suicide with an Intrigue (there are people on the Internet that actually do try to do this and sometimes even succeed), but I think you might have a tough time even with a Complex Intrigue unless the person is mentally unbalanced or deeply depressed.

Getting Baelon to kill himself would probably be extremely difficult. Getting Lady Blackwood to throw herself off a parapet would probably be considerably easier.

(If any of you evil people decide to do this, remember I thought of it first.)

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