Re: General Non-game Chat Thread

[Reader]

http://dragonsdance.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=173&
t=1789&
start=20#p49157

Take that you fancy pants hunters, 3d6 and a bit of luck and I aint needed no lousy bonus dice

He didn't even use Blood of the Andals. :?

Given his showing in the first story and his inexplicable performance in this hunt, it seems Orokos has decided Ser Kevan is some sort of heroic protagonist.

[Athelstan]

Well played...

[Reader]

Well played...

Ah, the kin-slaying antagonist to contrast with the heroic protagonist! :;
):

[Kevan Lyras]

Given his showing in the first story and his inexplicable performance in this hunt, it seems Orokos has decided Ser Kevan is some sort of heroic protagonist.

Well, is he not? :;
):
But it seems like story 2 is reserved for successes in unusual circumstances for Kevan. First the sneaking with 2D and now the hunt... (probably gonna botch the next fighting roll or something to balance things out..)

[Athelstan]

Ser Kevan, I called dibs in accepting the challenge, should the PC's at the scene don't pick it up.

[Reader]

Ser Kevan, I called dibs in accepting the challenge, should the PC's at the scene don't pick it up.

Not a "
calling dibs"
matter, multiple PCs are willing to take-up the challenge and make their case. Simple sum of persuasion and status rolls should do it I imagine.

[Kevan Lyras]

Sure, seems fair, just as I wrote, others have priority.

[Luecian LongBow]

http://dragonsdance.forumatic.com/viewtopic.php?f=173&
t=1789&
start=20#p49157

Take that you fancy pants hunters, 3d6 and a bit of luck and I aint needed no lousy bonus dice

He didn't even use Blood of the Andals. :?

Given his showing in the first story and his inexplicable performance in this hunt, it seems Orokos has decided Ser Kevan is some sort of heroic protagonist.

It's pretty clear Orkos took into account that you spent most the morning with a skilled and talented hunter. One who no doubt was able to impart helpful stratagems, techniques and wisdom. Well two out of three aint' bad.... :;
):

[Loreia]

Two words. Comfort food.

I know it well.

In all seriousness though, I live for the feels gauntlet.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Someone sent this to me today. It gave me a laugh.

[size=150:275gttsj]Two St. John's Policemen (Constables Clayton and Bob) call the station on the radio.


"
Hello. Sarge?"



"
Yes?"



"
We have a woman here that just shot her husband for stepping on the floor she had just mopped clean."



"
Have you arrested her?"



"
No sir. The floor is still wet."

[Baelon Drakeson]

Laughs are good. Today I made a student cry. That was not good.

[Reader]

Laughs are good. Today I made a student cry. That was not good.

Ouch. I sympathise! Tears of frustration or classes touching on an uncomfortable subject? Whatever the matter, I hope it was cleared up.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Ouch. I sympathise! Tears of frustration or classes touching on an uncomfortable subject? Whatever the matter, I hope it was cleared up.

None of the above;
I told them (in private) that they were failing my class because they had plagiarized.

[Nathaniel Mason]

None of the above;
I told them (in private) that they were failing my class because they had plagiarized.

Then they deserve what they got. It always stuns me when people break down in sobs after getting caught doing something they know full well is wrong and will have serious consequences of caught.

What? You are holding me accountable for my actions?! Whaaaaaaaaa.

Zero sympathy for them... especially in circumstances where choosing to do the right thing is easy.

Steal money from me to buy food because you are starving? Keep it. I can always get more. Steal money from me because you are just freakin lazy? My attitude will be dramatically different.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Yeah, I'm a big softie in some ways. They deserve the punishment they are getting, but the tears still got to me.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Even in cases like plagiarism there's usually a sympathetic element. That doesn't excuse the behavior, and it doesn't mean that the penalty should be lessened in any way...but I think it is good not to become too righteous in the application of punishment. Maybe they were just lazy...or maybe they had issues in their lives...or maybe they were honestly struggling and not getting it and made a grave error in trying to deal with it. In any and all of those situations, they are responsible for their actions...but it speaks well of you that your attitude isn't judgmental.

Or, at least that you can empathize with them, even if also judging.

[Loreia]

Realizing your problem wasn't how poorly you did, but that you were consistently doing something terrible? And you can't go back and change it? I'm guessing they thought it was all you until you told them off.

I remember in elementary I was writing a review/summary for a book and I added some stuff from the back of the cover, basically didn't use my own words in some places, and teach pulled me aside and explained it was bad and that there was a word for it and everything. I felt like I'd been caught stealing, so I dropped it like a bad habit.

[Nathaniel Mason]

Yeah.. still not feeling a lot of sympathy.

Most of academic work is based on previous sources. It's not plagiarism if you are using quotes and providing proper citations.

It's only plagiarism is you are using someone else's words and calling them your own.

I can't really see any justification for that.

About 10 years ago about 85 of the 150 engineering students were expelled from Brock University for plagiarizing sections of another student's research paper because they had copied word for word large sections (including the spelling mistakes). I don't think I would want to work in a building or drive across a bridge built by any of these kids. Choices have consequences.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Agreed, no justification. That's why the punishment is just.

That's not to say the person isn't worthy of sympathy though. People make poor decisions sometimes, but it doesn't make them bad people.

There's a much higher bar to meet that definition...even if that boundary is a very hazy, grey one at times.

[Nathaniel Mason]

That's not to say the person isn't worthy of sympathy though. People make poor decisions sometimes, but it doesn't make them bad people.

No person is any one thing, I agree. We are more than the simple sum of our choices.

However, we are steadily becoming a society where the consequences are no-where near appropriate for those choices. The CEO of Fanny and Freddy Mac destroys the life savings of millions of people and gets a 35 million dollar buyout package. Paula Dean uses the 'N' word thirty years ago and gets eviscerated for it.

In many academic institutions, plagiarism is a case for expulsion, not simply failing a class. They got off light.

I think cheating is more than just a poor choice. In this case, the cheating was considered and deliberate. It was not a moment of weakness, and it was something the person knew was wrong before they did it... and something they knew would seriously impact their life if they were caught.

People always have a choice. If someone is struggling, there are options that they have. They can talk to their professor or go to a school councilor, just to name two. Cheating shouldn't be an option, and it certainly shouldn't be the first option.

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Agreed, again. I'm not quibbling over the punishment, or its warrant.

I just don't see that as having to mean a full stop on having some sympathy. In this case 'having sympathy' is not code for 'letting them off easy.' It's just acknowledging, even if only to oneself, that it's really a shame. They feel bad, and they're probably going to feel a lot worse...and yeah their choices led them to that, but it's still really too bad and I feel sorry for them.

[Yoren longshore]

It really depends on the extent of the stealing. Some have the right sources, they just forgot to add it one place. Small mistakes like that sometimes counts as ripping off others work, but none of us are infallible. I don't know what the system is these days, but isn't there a possibility to do the works anew, unless you get expelled. My memory may be failing though
That is one of the few good things with universities in my opinion. Things have consequences but you can always fix your fuckups.

[Baelon Drakeson]

Well, first off, this is case is probably not what you are thinking of as plagiarism. Second, it is less than clear whether it was intentional cheating, or a misunderstanding of what was acceptable behavior.

This is a case of two students inappropriately collaborating - they (allegedly) were writing their assignments simultaneously, and likely discussing them as they wrote - to an extent that they were using much of the same phrases. I don't particularly believe that story for various reasons, but it is possible.

Further, these are first semester first-generation students, straight out of underfunded urban schools in a notoriously bad school system, in a program designed to help students who did not do well in high school (and probably would not have been able to get into college otherwise) learn how to succeed in college. It is quite possible that they had never even heard the term 'plagiarism' before this semester. Expecting them to have a nuanced enough understanding of where that fuzzy line is in what can be an incredibly grey area may not be particularly fair to them.

Their behavior was unacceptable, and must be treated as such. However, I think that expulsion would (in this case) be a serious overreaction. This incident will go in their academic file, so if they have done this before or do it again, more serious punishments will be handed out. I believe that expulsion would be appropriate if there were a history of this behavior or clear evidence of foreknowledge of wrongdoing, but neither of those conditions (as far as I am aware) obtain in this case. It's a process though, so I may learn otherwise.

[Reader]

Shades of grey and mitigating circumstances - a perfect tie in for a bunch of PCs investigating a war.

The real fun doesn't begin until the evidence is gathered and you lot are deciding punishments and the proclamation/peace treaty!

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

It may not prove to be correct, but I like to imagine Corrine being like Henry Fonda in Twelve Angry Men.

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