Re: General Non-game Chat Thread

[Samurel Manderly]

Well M is for Marsten as well as Manderly so it kinda works right? right?! on a side note, yeah, I tried reading everything, and being unfamiliar with PbP games I was quickly overwhelmed! so needless to say, I intend on learning PbP as quickly as possible, for me now it looks quick the challenge.

[Ser Jorah Holt]

best start with the current adventure and ask your house for a recap of where the house is.

[Yoren longshore]

Don't try to take it all in. Start in the tavern by talking to a few PCs and then work out from there, ask for help and advice and it'll be a lot easier than you having to do it all by yourself!

[Ser Jorah Holt]

the marstens have plenty of connections to the other players to meet people.

other thing to do is to ask for connections to other players

[Samurel Manderly]

Thanks for the help/advice everyone

[Septon Arlyn]

Septon Arlyn is always willing to teach people a few things... About the Gods who are one! Dun dun dun! . but really it should be fun. I've been wanting to debate the seven with you Mr agnostic �

[Yoren longshore]

The two with equal girth in a well rounded debate!

[Ser Jorah Holt]

it could be heavy reading

[Septon Arlyn]

And if we got daveth involved I don't even know if I could keep up

[Ser Jorah Holt]

daveth can't run fast

[Septon Arlyn]

It would be another 15 page thread like the sermon by the fire

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Septon Arlyn is always willing to teach people a few things... About the Gods who are one! Dun dun dun! . but really it should be fun. I've been wanting to debate the seven with you Mr agnostic �

He sounds like more of an atheist.

[Yoren longshore]

Agnostic is just an atheist ready to admit if he's wrong

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Agnostic is just an atheist ready to admit if he's wrong

That's not really correct. An agnostic believes that it is fundamentally impossible to ever know if any god(s) exist. It's not the same as an atheist, which is believing that it is a certainty that no deities of any kind exist.

[Septon Arlyn]

I have to say that playing as a pious person and being agnostic is quite fun. It lets me draw on my roots in religions upbringing lol

[Baelon Drakeson]

That's not really correct. An agnostic believes that it is fundamentally impossible to ever know if any god(s) exist. It's not the same as an atheist, which is believing that it is a certainty that no deities of any kind exist.

Corrine is mostly correct. Agnostic literally translates into "
unknown"
or "
unknowable"
, and originally meant the belief that the existence/nature of the divine is in principle unknowable. However, it has also been used to mean that the existence/nature of the divine is in theory knowable but isn't (personally) known (yet).

Another misconception is that being an atheist means you are anti-religious;
there are in fact atheistic religions (some forms of Buddhism for instance)

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

That's not really correct. An agnostic believes that it is fundamentally impossible to ever know if any god(s) exist. It's not the same as an atheist, which is believing that it is a certainty that no deities of any kind exist.

Corrine is mostly correct. Agnostic literally translates into "
unknown"
or "
unknowable"
, and originally meant the belief that the existence/nature of the divine is in principle unknowable. However, it has also been used to mean that the existence/nature of the divine is in theory knowable but isn't (personally) known (yet).

Another misconception is that being an atheist means you are anti-religious;
there are in fact atheistic religions (some forms of Buddhism for instance)

I didn't say atheism was anti-religious. Just that it posits that no deities actually exist. It doesn't obviate a belief system, just a supernatural figurehead.

My point about agnosticism is thst it's not just cop-out atheism. It's a distinct stance.

[Yoren longshore]

Partially it's a distinct stance. It's a belief that we cannot know what's out there, so it may be something out there. Atheism comes to the conclusion that it is nothing out there, because it is all but inconcievable. Then you have anti religous movements, who even in the distinct possibility that it is a god won't worship him. Like what Stephen Fry made headlines with recently

[Baelon Drakeson]

I didn't say atheism was anti-religious. Just that it posits that no deities actually exist. It doesn't obviate a belief system, just a supernatural figurehead.

My point about agnosticism is thst it's not just cop-out atheism. It's a distinct stance.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying you had that misconception. I was agreeing with you about agnosticism and then chose to address a view that no one here had put forth but that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine... I (currently) live in an area where some people think that atheists are devil worshipers.

Ignorance (in both the non-pejorative and pejorative senses) is my chosen foe, and sometimes I can get a little carried away in fighting it... even where it hasn't actually reared it's ugly head.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

Yoren, I think we perhaps have crossed wires. Agnosticism isn't going "
Hmm, well, I'm not sure. Maybe."
It's more like "
There's no way anyone could ever know either way, so it's irrelevant."
It's a stronger stance than many think.

[Lady Corrine Marsten]

I didn't say atheism was anti-religious. Just that it posits that no deities actually exist. It doesn't obviate a belief system, just a supernatural figurehead.

My point about agnosticism is thst it's not just cop-out atheism. It's a distinct stance.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was saying you had that misconception. I was agreeing with you about agnosticism and then chose to address a view that no one here had put forth but that is a bit of a pet peeve of mine... I (currently) live in an area where some people think that atheists are devil worshipers.

Ignorance (in both the non-pejorative and pejorative senses) is my chosen foe, and sometimes I can get a little carried away in fighting it... even where it hasn't actually reared it's ugly head.

Fair enough. One of my little annoyances is the misconception that agnosticism is a wishy-washy stance. Where I live, it gets wrongly adopted as a label for atheists who don't want to be called atheists, because so many atheists here come across as smug, superior, dogmatic arselanterns.

[Yoren longshore]

Yoren, I think we perhaps have crossed wires. Agnosticism isn't going "
Hmm, well, I'm not sure. Maybe."
It's more like "
There's no way anyone could ever know either way, so it's irrelevant."
It's a stronger stance than many think.

Ok, one learns as long as one have rpg friends:)

[Baelon Drakeson]

Fair enough. I would say it can be (but is not inherently) a "
wishy-washy"
stance, but not in the sense of being a closet atheist - rather there is no terminological distinction (though a significant philosophical difference) between the original sense of "
agnostic"
(the divine being in-principle unknowable) and a weaker or "
wishy-washy"
sense (the divine being unknown but possibly knowable).

I once described myself (speaking to a church-full of folks) as being "
a gnostic agnostic theistic humanist"
- both a mouthful and chock-full of seeming contradictions... yet actually conceptually coherent.

[Yoren longshore]

I don't doubt you Baelon but how is gnostic agnostic not a contradiction? If I remeber my latin (which I probably don't) isn't a sonething you add to change the meaning 180 degrees?

[Gwyneth Drakeson]

Yeah, but gnostics and agnostics describe very different things in this case. The modern meaning has deviated from the Latin roots.

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